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Atheist Forums › Science › Life Sciences v
The evolution of pain.

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The evolution of pain.
ignoramus Offline
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#21
RE: The evolution of pain.
June 13, 2016 at 5:46 am
That's because the mind and body is one. That's why we experience. Our mind, feelings, emotions, temperament all come along for the ride with the body.
For we "are" the body. Forget all this consciousness is separate nonsense.
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emjay Offline Donators
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#22
RE: The evolution of pain.
June 13, 2016 at 1:32 pm
(June 13, 2016 at 5:46 am)ignoramus Wrote: That's because the mind and body is one. That's why we experience. Our mind, feelings, emotions, temperament all come along for the ride with the body.
For we "are" the body.  Forget all this consciousness is separate nonsense.

I don't believe consciousness is separate either... I see it as mirroring/reflecting the underlying neural network state... somehow it just is that neural network state. But in my view, everything that is represented in consciousness is already represented in the neural networks such that phenomenal consciousness seems to be completely unnecessary... not two sides of the same coin working in concert with phenomena somehow influencing matter... because that would be dualism... but rather brain - i.e. neural networks - doing all the the work and mind inexplicably tagging along as like a passive observer of the whole thing. Basically I think we should be philosophical zombies and I have no idea why we're not.
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The Grand Nudger Offline
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#23
RE: The evolution of pain.
June 13, 2016 at 1:37 pm (This post was last modified: June 13, 2016 at 1:42 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 13, 2016 at 1:32 pm)Emjay Wrote:  Basically I think we should be philosophical zombies and I have no idea -that- we're not.

FTFY.   Angel    Wink

Maybe the zambies got a bad rap and we're simply trying to avoid association?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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emjay Offline Donators
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#24
RE: The evolution of pain.
June 13, 2016 at 1:45 pm
(June 13, 2016 at 1:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote:
(June 13, 2016 at 1:32 pm)Emjay Wrote:  Basically I think we should be philosophical zombies and I have no idea -that- we're not.

FTFY.   Angel    Wink

Maybe the zambies got a bad rap and we're simply trying to avoid association?

Here we go again  Big Grin  Heart

Is that how you see it then? That we could actually be philosophical zombies without even realising it? How does that even work?  Big Grin
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The Grand Nudger Offline
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#25
RE: The evolution of pain.
June 13, 2016 at 2:02 pm (This post was last modified: June 13, 2016 at 2:04 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Our concept of a definite border between a philosophical zombie and a sentient creature is simply nowhere to be found in evidence.   It's a declaration, an objection by fiat. Seems to be more of a sliding scale.  

There's no way to consistently apply an understanding of the evolution of pain, for example...without the provision that it's origins lie at the p-zombie end of that scale and are not fundamentally different from our own.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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emjay Offline Donators
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#26
RE: The evolution of pain.
June 13, 2016 at 2:39 pm
(June 13, 2016 at 2:02 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Our concept of a definite border between a philosophical zombie and a sentient creature is simply nowhere to be found in evidence.   It's a declaration, an objection by fiat.  Seems to be more of a sliding scale.  

There's no way to consistently apply an understanding of the evolution of pain, for example...without the provision that it's origins lie at the p-zombie end of that scale and are not fundamentally different from our own.

Okay, I think I get your first sentence... sort of  Wink But what do you mean by the second?  Blush
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brewer Offline Donators
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#27
RE: The evolution of pain.
June 13, 2016 at 2:44 pm
Are we limiting the discussion to nociceptive pain? There are other types of pain I don't think anyone has addressed pain perception. Maybe that's for another thread.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental. 
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Gemini Offline
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#28
RE: The evolution of pain.
June 13, 2016 at 6:33 pm
(June 12, 2016 at 5:31 pm)Emjay Wrote: I can (roughly) understand that from a neural network perspective but it still doesn't say anything about why or how there is phenomenal experience. If you're interested, me, Bennyboy, Rhythm, and ChadWooters discussed this at length in the thread Philosophy>Seeing Red. That thread was a lot of fun and yielded a lot of insight (I thought) and we've all got theories but in the end they're just theories  Big Grin

That's a very interesting thread, thanks for mentioning it to me--I love those kinds of questions. Still working my way through it...
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emjay Offline Donators
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#29
RE: The evolution of pain.
June 13, 2016 at 6:52 pm
(June 13, 2016 at 6:33 pm)Gemini Wrote:
(June 12, 2016 at 5:31 pm)Emjay Wrote: I can (roughly) understand that from a neural network perspective but it still doesn't say anything about why or how there is phenomenal experience. If you're interested, me, Bennyboy, Rhythm, and ChadWooters discussed this at length in the thread Philosophy>Seeing Red. That thread was a lot of fun and yielded a lot of insight (I thought) and we've all got theories but in the end they're just theories  Big Grin

That's a very interesting thread, thanks for mentioning it to me--I love those kinds of questions. Still working my way through it...

Cool  Big Grin In that case you'll find kindred spirits in me, Bennyboy, Rhythm, and Jormungandr... it seems we can't get enough of it either  Wink
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ignoramus Offline
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#30
RE: The evolution of pain.
June 13, 2016 at 7:11 pm
Who's "we"?

The body, the consciousness, or the neural network? He he

(Please, no more rabbit holes)
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Atheist Forums › Science › Life Sciences v
The evolution of pain.

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