(June 25, 2016 at 8:11 am)Losty Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 7:28 am)abaris Wrote: So, Scotland didn't wait long.



http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scotla...-2g5lg2ngz

Of course they didn't. This is a huge deal and a major part of the reason they wanted independence to begin with. Even if all of Scotland pulls together and votes one way, their votes will never be heard because the rest of the U.K. does not align with Scottish view on politics. Now they can show it. And now is the time to get out before the deal is sealed.

Now replace Scotland with the UK and the UK with Europe and THAT is why I voted leave!  We may as well not even have a UK government as all our laws have to be given the ok from Europe first, just look at the Tampon Tax debacle!

Yes, except Scotland is better off without the UK economically. The same cannot be said for the Uk without the EU.

(June 25, 2016 at 8:07 am)robvalue Wrote: Well...

If this all somehow works out well, for Britain and even for the rest of the world, I'll call it a fluke. I don't think there's any way anyone could predict with any accuracy a good result from this.

You know, what I am going to say next will sound incredibly harsh and heartless. But the only chance for a united Europe is that this doesn't work out. Otherwise, as there are many strong nationalists all over Europe right now, they will feel encouraged and will be provided with additional ammunition to lure the credulous in. On the same lines I hope, the EU commission stands to it's announcement of not going easy on the UK, as far as upcoming negotiations are concerned.

This wouldn't be a fluke, but a full blown plague. With the very real possibility of returning to nationalism and a continent of borders. To be fucked over by the rest of the world at their leisure.

(June 25, 2016 at 8:06 am)LastPoet Wrote: I have nothing personally against Bella, Napo, etc.

I don't know them, so I can't judge them, other than by what they're saying here. But based on that, I doubt we would find much of a common ground in real life.

(June 25, 2016 at 8:27 am)Losty Wrote: Yes, except Scotland is better off without the UK economically. The same cannot be said for the Uk without the EU.

Your basing that opinion on....?  As far as I can see there is no reason we cant be as well off or better without the sometimes ridiculous legislation set by Europe?

I tend to find common ground over beers and friendly conversation. If I had to find friends based on politics (living in south Georgia) I wouldn't have any friends at all.

(June 25, 2016 at 8:46 am)Allanon Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 8:27 am)Losty Wrote: Yes, except Scotland is better off without the UK economically. The same cannot be said for the Uk without the EU.

Your basing that opinion on....?  As far as I can see there is no reason we cant be as well off or better without the sometimes ridiculous legislation set by Europe?

It's 8:50 am. I haven't slept. Feel free to go back through the thread and see reasons already given as to why leaving the EU was bad for the economy. Likely you will survive and perhaps one day you will thrive all on your own. But leaving the EU hurt your economy. You can't really deny that. It hurt the entire worlds economy for that matter. I'm not going to find links or sources now but if you're still looking for an answer in about 12 hours from now, I will.

(June 25, 2016 at 8:46 am)Allanon Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 8:27 am)Losty Wrote: Yes, except Scotland is better off without the UK economically. The same cannot be said for the Uk without the EU.

Your basing that opinion on....?  As far as I can see there is no reason we cant be as well off or better without the sometimes ridiculous legislation set by Europe?

Scotland would be better off economically without the UK because London and the south east sucks all the wealth out of the rest of the country and then tells the different regions that they can't cope alone. It's like being an abused spouse.

The legislation created by Europe isn't done for the sake of it. Our environment has definitely improved as a result of being part of the EU. Personally I don't want to live in a shit hole to make other people richer.

(June 25, 2016 at 7:37 am)LastPoet Wrote:

(June 25, 2016 at 7:27 am)Emjay Wrote: For what it's worth, which is probably nothing, I apologise to Bella and Napo. I'm getting too tunnel-visioned and insular with my thinking on all this. I've just been talking with a couple of workmen, leavers, and they're nice guys, one of them an ex-soldier, and making some good points and ultimately full of hope for the future. So you know what? Good luck. You've fought long and hard for this so I genuinely hope you get what you're hoping for out of this, for all our sakes.

You are a nice guy Emjay, but niceties do not really work with the stubborn. I have no doubts that brexiters also have good qualities, not in this case.

Well, I'll never wish the BNPers well or other such extreme right-wing hate-everything parties, and they make up a sizable proportion of the leave vote, but I have no idea how much. What I do know is that Napo is not like that. And I'm hoping Bella too, but less sure on that unfortunately, but benefit of the doubt.

I've finally finished unfriending anyone who disagrees with me. Wow! This is exhausting.

I can't have a civilised debate with such people.