(June 27, 2016 at 6:33 am)SofaKingHigh Wrote: Or, could it be a failure of European politicians on the whole?

Of course, but since you're from the UK I felt like pointing it out. What we observe as a whole, is national politicians parking their asses in Brussels and even before their seats get cold, they tell their own population about the nasty EU. Barring the fact that they have raised their paws to decide on something they later on blame on Brussels.

That's a sure way to create resentment and it's a sure way to give populists, who give even less of a shit for the real needs of the population, even more leverage.

Populism is democracy fucked.

(June 27, 2016 at 6:53 am)abaris Wrote:

(June 27, 2016 at 6:33 am)SofaKingHigh Wrote: Or, could it be a failure of European politicians on the whole?

Of course, but since you're from the UK I felt like pointing it out. What we observe as a whole, is national politicians parking their asses in Brussels and even before their seats get cold, they tell their own population about the nasty EU. Barring the fact that they have raised their paws to decide on something they later on blame on Brussels.

That's a sure way to create resentment and it's a sure way to give populists, who give even less of a shit for the real needs of the population, even more leverage.

Abaris, actually, the opposite happens.  A UK politician, usually one who has failed, will go to Brussels and we will hear nothing more from them.  Nothing.

They earn 3 times as much as our prime minister, with a £50k expense package and, for the most part, they are politicians who failed to get elected into their own parliament.

We hear nothing from them, nothing.

(June 27, 2016 at 6:59 am)SofaKingHigh Wrote: Abaris, actually, the opposite happens.  A UK politician, usually one who has failed, will go to Brussels and we will hear nothing more from them.  Nothing.

That's not what I meant. Brussels is the well paying junk yard for ousted national politicians in every country. One of ours, a former minster of the interior, even serves jail time for his record there, since what they paid him still wasn't enough to not hold up his hand for some additional bribes. I mean the higher ups, the ones making up the commission, since they are the ones making the decisions. In your case the likes of Cameron, Blair and much earlier on Thatcher.

(June 27, 2016 at 7:03 am)abaris Wrote:

(June 27, 2016 at 6:59 am)SofaKingHigh Wrote: Abaris, actually, the opposite happens.  A UK politician, usually one who has failed, will go to Brussels and we will hear nothing more from them.  Nothing.

That's not what I meant. Brussels is the well paying junk yard for ousted national politicians in every country. I mean the higher ups, the ones making up the commission, since they are the ones making the decisions. In your case the likes of Cameron, Blair and much earlier on Thatcher.

Cameron and Blair are pro-European, Thatcher would almost certainly have voted remain.

Not sure of your point.

(June 25, 2016 at 10:59 pm)Bella Morte Wrote: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016...ction-2016

Quote:“The special relationship remains a special relationship,” he said. “We’re confident that, no matter what the implications are of this vote, that the relationship between the United States and UK will remain as strong as ever. Also our partnership with the EU, across a range of security, political and economic issues, will remain very strong indeed.”

Quote:I do want to make clear that the United States will strongly oppose the re-establishment of a hard border between the six counties of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

Now they're gonna try get involved with Northern Ireland. No wonder a lot of people hate the US.

You do realise that both the UK and Ireland invited in, without prompting, the US as a neutral third party to oversee and arbitrate disagreements vis a vis the GFA, the basis of the current NI process, the only one to bring peace. They are sticking their oar in because the direct parties in the issue made them part of the solution. Obama pretty much as an obligation to the UK and Irish governments to take the line has, because Clinton agreed to Major's and Bruton's request to get involved and ensure the GFA stuck.

(June 27, 2016 at 7:04 am)SofaKingHigh Wrote: Cameron and Blair are pro-European, Thatcher would almost certainly have voted remain.

Not sure of your point.

My point is, they always tend to evade blame for unpopular decisions they helped initiate by creating the illusion of doing their best, but couldn't compete with the big bad EU. And hardly anyone bothers to look who's actually being the EU.

We have that here, on this very board. People considering the EU as some big bad overlord instead of the trivial fact that it's the sum of the national politicians.

(June 27, 2016 at 6:46 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: I would agree that I make run-on sentences I don't make them all the time I'm not suggesting that you're saying I do Squishy in fact that's a rather accurate characterisation of how I speak a lot of the time I really like the whole "Humpy" thing it suits me that's just fine.

Geddit?

I think you've got a ways to go before you're up to Sir Humphrey's standards... but you're on the right track... keep working on it 

(June 27, 2016 at 7:09 am)abaris Wrote:

(June 27, 2016 at 7:04 am)SofaKingHigh Wrote: Cameron and Blair are pro-European, Thatcher would almost certainly have voted remain.

Not sure of your point.

My point is, they always tend to evade blame for unpopular decisions they helped initiate by creating the illusion of doing their best, but couldn't compete with the big bad EU. And hardly anyone bothers to look who's actually being the EU.

We have that here, on this very board. People considering the EU as some big bad overlord instead of the trivial fact that it's the sum of the national politicians.

Where are you from Abaris?

I've lived in Germany and Switzerland and, from my experience, your first point could describe any politician in the EU and in no way is that a British phenomenon.

(June 27, 2016 at 7:12 am)SofaKingHigh Wrote: I've lived in Germany and Switzerland and, from my experience, your first point could describe any politician in the EU and in no way is that a British phenomenon.

Bingo, Sofa. That's what I'm trying to convey. It's the usual weaseling out of politicians, thereby giving their nationalists leverage. I only adressed UK politicians, since you are from the UK.