(June 28, 2016 at 7:59 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: At any rate, even if Quran was silent about this issue, and ahadith are to be followed regarding this issue in killing homosexuals who are caught doing the act, those who advocate killing don't condone taking the law in your own hands and going to a foreign country, and punishing people for committing that.  

For example, I believe fornicators should be lashed in an Islamic country. Does that mean I advocate people lashing at people in a foreign country and attacking them if four witnesses see them commit fornication.

Of course not.

"Moderate Muslims"

You actually think that people should be lashed for having sex Mystic? Why not everywhere? Why shouldn't others do the same, elsewhere?

(June 28, 2016 at 2:33 pm)Drich Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vev-OzHQy94

I posted this video in my Pulse thread but it seems no one wanted to talk about it over there...

This was originally reported by channel 9 which is an orlando ABC affiliate.

So maybe I'll have better luck here.

My question... Why Is this not been on the evening news? Why is no one discussing the Muslim "answer to the homosexual problem?"

Why are baptist ministers and fringe christians being quoted for commending this act when the shooter's own religious belief system supports what he did, and is being literally called to be done by one of his religious leaders just 3 weeks before this happened?

If you don't want or can't answer those questions... Answer this.. How does this video make you feel?
Do you think the government or media is withholding this story to shape how the public views Islam.. Why?

Do I detect a whole pike of butthurt that it wasn't a christian pastor calling for murder.

Why, of course I do. Dritch, you've made it amply clear that the only reason you weren't out in the street celebrating after the Orlando shooting is because a muslim did it. If it'd been a christian of the right denomination we'd not be hearing a peep from yoh on here (thougb I'm sure you'd be chhering him on on whatever abomination of a christian forum or stormfront clone you inhabit).

(June 28, 2016 at 8:56 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote:

(June 28, 2016 at 2:33 pm)Drich Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vev-OzHQy94

I posted this video in my Pulse thread but it seems no one wanted to talk about it over there...

This was originally reported by channel 9 which is an orlando ABC affiliate.

So maybe I'll have better luck here.

My question... Why Is this not been on the evening news? Why is no one discussing the Muslim "answer to the homosexual problem?"

Why are baptist ministers and fringe christians being quoted for commending this act when the shooter's own religious belief system supports what he did, and is being literally called to be done by one of his religious leaders just 3 weeks before this happened?

If you don't want or can't answer those questions... Answer this.. How does this video make you feel?
Do you think the government or media is withholding this story to shape how the public views Islam.. Why?

Do I detect a whole pike of butthurt that it wasn't a christian pastor calling for murder.

Why, of course I do. Dritch, you've made it amply clear that the only reason you weren't out in the street celebrating after the Orlando shooting is because a muslim did it. If it'd been a christian of the right denomination we'd not be hearing a peep from yoh on here (thougb I'm sure you'd be chhering him on on whatever abomination of a christian forum or stormfront clone you inhabit).

christianity and islam are of the same coin and yes he is butt hurt.

(June 28, 2016 at 8:50 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You actually think that people should be lashed for having sex Mystic?  Why not everywhere?  Why shouldn't others do the same, elsewhere?

I don't think such laws should exist without the admonishment from God and his words being made most high in society. That is, without that foundation,  it cannot be forced to a society and it will backfire. With the foundation there, it should exist.

I also think perhaps (not sure about this), laws like this should only be implemented under the rule of an infallible guide by God who is sinless or else, it will seem corrupt if you have people who are not sinless on top of society.

There is division on that, and I'm not sure, I haven't reflected and reasoned between both sides of the issue on it.  But no I don't think non-Muslims should implement this law anymore then banning alcohol. It will backfire, without, the word of God being made most high.

The fact that such laws are beneficial for society but in dire need of words from God (and even can be argued an infallible ruler and guide from God) point to the need of revelation for society from God.

There are some rules that no matter what secular punishment you put, are not going to be followed, without a foundation of society being rooted on revelation from God and leaders he appoints.

(June 28, 2016 at 9:22 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I don't think such laws should exist without the admonishment from God and his words being made most high in society. That is, without that foundation,  it cannot be forced to a society and it will backfire. With the foundation there, it should exist.

Why?.....and isn't it backfiring, even where magic book is made most high?  

Quote:I also think perhaps (not sure about this), laws like this should only be implemented under the rule of an infallible guide by God who is sinless or else, it will seem corrupt if you have people who are not sinless on top of society.

Does it matter whether or not the man who orders a cruel and inhuman punishment is a good person?  Why, does that make the punishment less cruel or inhuman? 

Quote:There is division on that, and I'm not sure, I haven't reflected and reasoned between both sides of the issue on it.  But no I don't think non-Muslims should implement this law anymore then banning alcohol. It will backfire, without, the word of God being made most high.

Well, hey, reflect and reason with me.  Yet another service we provide.

Quote:The fact that such laws are beneficial for society but in dire need of words from God (and even can be argued an infallible ruler and guide from God) point to the need of revelation for society from God.

Im not sure how you;ve determined that lashings for the crime of sex are beneficial for society, but here..finally..you may have found something upon which I would agree that a revelation from a god is needed..if that;s what it would take, to stop people from flaying each other over getting laid. If only god weren't silent in the face of this barbarity, if only god existed.

Quote:There are some rules that no matter what secular punishment you put, are not going to be followed, without a foundation of society being rooted on revelation from God and leaders he appoints.

Is lashing an issue of secularism vs "other"?  Doesn't seem so...and how would what you see as the ineffectiveness of secular punishments make lashing a good idea in the first place, for any crime, in any country?

(June 28, 2016 at 3:33 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 28, 2016 at 3:11 pm)Drich Wrote: And did any christians heed his call like the muslims did?

Or do you not understand that is the point I am making?

This Imam has the power and authority to ensite action while nut bag christian pastors do not. That an average home grown muslim was activated into action like a sleeper agent/Manchurian Candidate with the application of the right words...

So then how more unstable are those who want to come here unchecked/unvetted?

So that makes them half assed bigots. They love the tough talk but are pussies in regards to actually enforcing the law they claim their god wants them to spread. The Islamist who actually murder gays are more true to their beliefs.

I am glad they are half assed bigots, on top of being flat out wrong about human sexuality. But they are still Christians.

Gays don't owe anyone submission nor do they need your permission to be who they are. 

SECULAR LAW is why they are half assed bigots. Because the fear of going to jail overrides the bullshit they claim.

What law is that?

Do you still not understand Christianity is freedom from the law? That Biblical Christianity is not meant to replace secular law, but to augment it? so then by what force are Christians supposed to use to enforce "freedom?"

Or are we just in an area of discussion you do not know how to respond to, yet you feel it is you duty to make Islamic terror attacks the fault of Christianity some how?

If this is the case tell me how that is not bigotry on your part?

(June 28, 2016 at 3:53 pm)Irrational Wrote:

(June 28, 2016 at 3:49 pm)Drich Wrote: YES IT DOES!!!!

One can be Bigoted, but not racist against Muslims.

I said some, and it's a personal observation that some people do confuse Muslims and Arabs together, thinking they're exactly the same group.

Christianity Judaism and even some Hindi are other popular 'arab' religions.

If there is confusion it is brought on by the ignorant

(June 28, 2016 at 3:53 pm)Chad32 Wrote:

(June 28, 2016 at 3:28 pm)Drich Wrote: So let me get this straight you see Christianity as a greater threat than terrorist attacks/planes into buildings, shooting up nigh clubs, shooting up a CHRISTMAS PARTY etc... Because Christianity offers an opposing view to you politically but is willing to obey and yeild to all the laws of the land, yet simply stands in disagreement with you?!?!?!

No. I'm saying that christian extremists do the same thing, and if they obey the law it's largely because they created those laws. Yes they've been working on christian sharia for about as long as the country has been in place. You really think your side is so much different than them. The only reason christians on average might be more sane, is because secular laws have dragged them into sanity. You've still got people bombing abortion clinics, or enacting regulation just to shut clinics down. Like I said. You don't give a crap about homosexuals, so why are you even remarking on a guy wanting to shoot up some people?

So... To you enacting legislation to temporarily shutting down an abortion clinic till the checks and balances of the government can over turn the law is the same thing in your mind's eye as a calculated coordinated deliberate attack that toppled the world trade centers buildings and left a hole in the pentagon? (I'm doing an apples to apples comparison as we as Christians are allowed to work with in the frame work of the government and Muslims are allowed to hijack planes and fly them into buildings killing thousands... We however are forbidden to kill anyone, anyone who does so does not do so in the name of Christ.) There in lies the difference between Christian extremeism and Islam... The bible forbidds these actions and the koran calls for them. but people like you can not admit this.

So again working with in the frame work of the government but to have an opposing political view to you is the SAME Or no.. You said WORSE than flying planes into buildings in the name of your God, and his promised 'extra reward' in your after life, for striking down the infidels.

Are you still hold on to that? i was hoping that common sense would take hold at some point, that maybe which ever saterist you favor/get you world view from didn't quite go over where to end christian hate, but you could on your own (with out someone telling you what to think) could see for yourself that the threat or your preceived threat of christianity is a manufactured one.. That living in a world with limited access to abortion in the state of texas is a far cry from wondering if your plane will be bombed or hijacked, looking over your shoulder in a night club, or sporting event everytime you hear a bang..

But, no you can not even put down your personal hate for Christianity/God long enough to identify the real threat to you and your way of life. Christianity has not declared war on you but Islam Literally has on all of us. For them this means there are no civilians there is no collateral damage, there is only the good guys (them) and the bad guys, everyone else.

But again to you.. the real bad guy is christianity/God and Islam can run rampant over this country or yours and it will not be as bad as the law respecting christians not killing people trying to get their laws passed. (legally)

(June 29, 2016 at 8:44 am)Drich Wrote:

(June 28, 2016 at 3:53 pm)Chad32 Wrote: No. I'm saying that christian extremists do the same thing, and if they obey the law it's largely because they created those laws. Yes they've been working on christian sharia for about as long as the country has been in place. You really think your side is so much different than them. The only reason christians on average might be more sane, is because secular laws have dragged them into sanity. You've still got people bombing abortion clinics, or enacting regulation just to shut clinics down. Like I said. You don't give a crap about homosexuals, so why are you even remarking on a guy wanting to shoot up some people?

So... To you enacting legislation to temporarily shutting down an abortion clinic till the checks and balances of the government can over turn the law is the same thing in your mind's eye as a calculated coordinated deliberate attack that toppled the world trade centers buildings and left a hole in the pentagon? (I'm doing an apples to apples comparison as we as Christians are allowed to work with in the frame work of the government and Muslims are allowed to hijack planes and fly them into buildings killing thousands... We however are forbidden to kill anyone, anyone who does so does not do so in the name of Christ.) There in lies the difference between Christian extremeism and Islam... The bible forbidds these actions and the koran calls for them. but people like you can not admit this.

God damn, I am falling back into the pit of talking to someone I really shouldn't bother with. The roe vs Wade law is not going to be overturned. Bombing abortion clinics, or over regulating them into bankruptcy, among a bunch of other things, is worse than muslims doing it, partly because the media seems to refuse to call these acts terrorism. Because they're white christian people doing it. they're not the "other" that we love attacking so much. And we do go after muslims and islam. I do consider trying to make laws based on the bible worse than killings, because it has a harsher long term effect. Not that this is the only thing that local christian terrorist groups do. They do worse than killings, because like I said some of them push legislation to force the bible into schools, or protect parents who let their children die from treatable illnesses on the basis of "faith healing".

If you can't see how this kind of thing is worse, then that's your problem. Your flavor of religion is not different from their flavor of religion. They're cut from the same cloth, as they originate in the same area with the same god. Christianity and islam are two sides of the same coin, and since christianity is further entrenched in this country than islam is, it remains the bigger threat. Not that anyone is ignoring radical islam. we just think it's hypocritical for a christian to come on talking about islamic hate, when christianity has been no kinder to homosexuals either.