(June 28, 2016 at 8:37 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: So, to be perfectly clear, I said doctors (and their equipment) can be wrong sometimes. I didn't say that they don't know how to tell if somebody is dead. No amount of medical training precludes a human being from making mistakes on the job, so even the world's best doctors are capable of occasional errors.


Furthermore, doctors' error is not the only possible explanation I offered for a person appearing dead without actually being dead. I also mentioned the possibility that we might not be currently able to detect and/or understand all levels of life and brain activity. If that were the case, a doctor could mistake a living person for a dead one without it even being his fault.

Another possibility is that the subject is totally dead and having no experiences. The experiences that they claimed to have happened while they were dead happened while they were dying or being resuscitated.

(June 28, 2016 at 4:27 pm)Gemini Wrote:

(June 28, 2016 at 8:37 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: So, to be perfectly clear, I said doctors (and their equipment) can be wrong sometimes. I didn't say that they don't know how to tell if somebody is dead. No amount of medical training precludes a human being from making mistakes on the job, so even the world's best doctors are capable of occasional errors.


Furthermore, doctors' error is not the only possible explanation I offered for a person appearing dead without actually being dead. I also mentioned the possibility that we might not be currently able to detect and/or understand all levels of life and brain activity. If that were the case, a doctor could mistake a living person for a dead one without it even being his fault.

Another possibility is that the subject is totally dead and having no experiences. The experiences that they claimed to have happened while they were dead happened while they were dying or being resuscitated.

Ah, thanks for reminding me. That's the one I forgot.


Gemini is right, Rik. It's also possible that the "visions" are happening while the person is unconscious, but before or after their vitals dip below what we're able to detect. You have no way of knowing whether these dreams are actually occurring at the moment when brain activity isn't apparent.

(June 28, 2016 at 7:27 am)robvalue Wrote: True knowledge can't be bought.

Is your real name Jesus Christ that you are not for sale?  

Oh, I see.  
You just want to raise the price.
One truckload of gold is not enough, isn't it Roberto.
Ok, I will give you two truckload.
Deal?  

(June 28, 2016 at 4:32 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:

(June 28, 2016 at 4:27 pm)Gemini Wrote: Another possibility is that the subject is totally dead and having no experiences. The experiences that they claimed to have happened while they were dead happened while they were dying or being resuscitated.

Ah, thanks for reminding me. That's the one I forgot.


Gemini is right, Rik. It's also possible that the "visions" are happening while the person is unconscious, but before or after their vitals dip below what we're able to detect. You have no way of knowing whether these dreams are actually occurring at the moment when brain activity isn't apparent.

No, Pinky.

Also Gem is wrong.  

The consciousness of the people who experienced NDEs went well behind the brain.
They could see what happened in other rooms of the hospital while their bodies lied in the emergency room.
That clearly means that the consciousness get disassociate from the body-brain once the body-brain is dead.
Moreover it also means that the physical death doesn't represent the end of ourselves.
Moreover it also means that atheism is pure fantasy.  

Rikky, wtf is wrong with you?

(June 29, 2016 at 9:11 am)Stimbo Wrote: Rikky, wtf is wrong with you?

Brother Stim.  

I suppose it has to do with my low reputation in here.  

You don't imagine how envious of your top reputation I am.  

This isn't a matter of reputation, Rik. It's a matter of you simply ignoring opposing arguments, evidence, and propositions of other people while continuing to assert your own shit without so much as a drop of support, then acting as if we're the dumb ones because we want you to support your bullshit.

(June 29, 2016 at 9:36 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: This isn't a matter of reputation, Rik. It's a matter of you simply ignoring opposing arguments, evidence, and propositions of other people while continuing to assert your own shit without so much as a drop of support, then acting as if we're the dumb ones because we want you to support your bullshit.

You are an absolute joke Pinky.  

How these NDE could have seen what was happening in other rooms of the hospital while their dead body
lie in the emergency room?
Their report was validated by doctors and nurses that were present there so it is you guys that ignore evidence not me.  

Sorry mate, you fail once again.  

Rik, can you explain why you have eyes in the first place if you can see without them when your consciousness detaches from the body? In other words if consciousness can freely detach from the body, and as you claim, float around a hospital observing things, why have a body, brain, and eyes in the first place? Or do you believe they do not contribute in any way to your conscious experience?

I recommend a book to you called 'Passage' by Connie Willis. It's all about NDEs. It's fiction but it does provide a lot of food for thought on what they are from a skeptical point of view and why there is reason to be skeptical of claims made about them. Perhaps you will understand the position of many atheists, including me, better if you read it.

Rik, why don't you google James Randi discussing his 'out of body' experience and get back to us about how that had nothing to do with his brain?