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My question... Why Is this not been on the evening news? Why is no one discussing the Muslim "answer to the homosexual problem?"
What...are you crazy? How is this video even relevant?
The Orlando attack had NOTHING to do with homosexuality...so sayeth you.
quotation please.
Quote:Why are baptist ministers and fringe christians being quoted for commending this act when the shooter's own religious belief system supports what he did, and is being literally called to be done by one of his religious leaders just 3 weeks before this happened?
Well, everyone knows radical Islamic fundamentalists be trippin', Drich...the shit's not even news, really. Why not view this admonishment of Christians as a positive in regards to this matter? Perhaps it's just a subconscious acknowledgement that Biblical Christianity is just betterer and truerer...and thusly, it's leaders should be held to a higher standard.
Sounds good, yes?
You're welcome.
[/quote] So not news...
A main stream mosque invites a main stream imam to speak and he speaks a mainstream Islamic message that says Kill Gay people so they can have a chance at attonement... Then 3 weeks later someone struggling with his homosexuality does this very thing!
Someone who grew up American and apparently was apart of the homosexual culture can be reprogrammed to kill his fellow 'gays' in a matter of weeks and this is not news?
Maybe you should take some time to define what is and is not news worthy to your liberal mind..
Better yet would it be news if he were following the instructions of a west borough baptist minister instead? Why is one news and the other not? Why was the mere fact that they were here protesting the funerals with their god hates fag signs and the guy who inspired the shootings gets a pass?
Or have you just been indoctrinated to not think that way?
Quote:Like that dude is nuts. Or perhaps high.
Probably nuts, though...Maybe both?
And if he were following his only aviable path to redemption according to his religion? And if millions more follow suit? One guy marching to the beat of a drum only he can here is nuts... Billions marching to the same beat is a movement, whether you can hear or are willing to recognize it or not.
Quote:Yes, I believe news outlets can and do spin stories on occasion, with the goal of shaping/influencing public sentiment on particular matters; though I'm not sure I'd believe that to be the case in this instance. If it were, I think the goal or reason would be a bit more complex than simply changing how the public views Islam, as a exercise in liberal douchery.
Public safety actually comes to mind.
who's safty? the murder who instigated this attack? Because without some public accountability his guy is free to continue to perfect his sermon to reach out to the next guy and the next.
Or maybe you are referring to the billions who embrace what was said on the video???
What if they were Christians who said this and billions of Christian who embraced a doctrine of killing gays would you be concerned with their safty?
RE: Muslim Imam calls for Homosexual death 3 weeks before pulse nigh club shooting
June 30, 2016 at 1:49 pm
(June 29, 2016 at 9:54 am)Veritas_Vincit Wrote:
(June 29, 2016 at 9:18 am)Drich Wrote: So what did Jesus say on the cross just before he died?
When he tasted the wine, he said, “Itisfinished.” Then he bowed his head and died.
Now back to Mat 5:18 Jesus came to 'full fill the law and in your version verse 18 says I assure you that nothing will disappear from the law until heaven and earth are gone. The law will not lose even the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter until it has all been done.
Which again was completed on the cross when Jesus died.
Yes the law remains as heaven and earth are here, but it has indeed changed as the law has been full filled. Which means a NT Christian (one who has received the atonement offered by Christ) is not judged by the law as a means to righteousness. Or the law is not used to 'judge the morality' of the sanctified believer. When a believer is judged it is the righteousness of Christ himself that is judged.
Or do you not understand the divide between OT Judaism and NT Christianity. If NT Christians were to follow ALL the laws and if none of them changed then we'd be OT jews. as it is our dietary, social and even moral laws all have changed. So clearly your interpretation of Mat 5 is wrong.
"It is finished" does not mean the same as "Now that I am dead everything that God said to Moses is now null and void." "It" is not specified, but in the context of him being crucified to death, it seems more likely to mean his ordeal, or his whole life.
In the sermon on the moutn, Jesus didn't say "...until I am dead." he said "...until all heaven and earth have passed."
This seems like you aren't joining the dots, you're adding extra dots to draw what you want to see. I don't buy it.
That's not what Christ said... He said the law will remain as long as the earth remain, BUT IT SHALL NOT BE CHANGED in the least little way till all is complete. Meaning once "all if complete/it is finished (on the cross) the law is open for change even though it remains. And it does remain as all the unsaved are judged against what the laws says. Christ offers freedom from the law through atonement. which would not be necessary if he abolished the law. No the law has to remain in order for atonement to work, In order for their to be a separation from the saved and unsaved. If Christ abolished the law then all would be saved, but again not the case. Only those who accepts the atonement offered are saved from the law and the consequences the law demands..
Otherwise again if Christ meant to say what you think this passage in Mat 5 means, then their could be no gentile believers. animals still had to be sacrificed for sins, and their would have to be a temple... In other words your interpretation of mat 5 does not account for the changes and difference that have always separated OT Judaism and NT Christianity. this is not a new thing. The changes started immediately after the death and resurrection of Christ.
How else with your understanding of Mat 5 can you account for the differences between Christianity and OT Judaism?
RE: Muslim Imam calls for Homosexual death 3 weeks before pulse nigh club shooting
June 30, 2016 at 2:08 pm
(June 29, 2016 at 10:32 am)The_Empress Wrote:
(June 29, 2016 at 10:24 am)Drich Wrote: If you are not afraid to criticize Islam, then where is the criticism? I show you a news report from this area where it clearly explains a local Mosque invited a Imam to call for the deaths of homosexuals 3 weeks before this thing happened..
Again, would your current nonchalant attitude towards a religious leader be the same if he were a bishop from the RC church and the shooter a roman Catholic?
What is your evidence that the shooter carried out the shooting due to what the imam said?
If a Christian were to shoot up a nightclub full of homosexuals and someone linked you to one of the many sermons Christian pastors have made calling for the death of homosexuals, you would be singing a completely different tune, I have no doubt.
Never mind. I already know how you're going to answer.
It's in the 911 transcripts. He was waging jihad against the infidels of the west. He also called a news show and we in orlando got to hear alot more than the rest of you, the FBI has since seized that recording. (he read off a manifesto that outlines his reasons for the attacks) Apparently he mirrored everything he said to the news outlet to 911, but it all has been censored.. the local Orlando paper is in a law suit against the FBI and the state to have that stuff re released. He does not mention this Imam by name but apparently his reasoning is the same.
Again, if the shoe were on the other foot the rest of christianity would condemn this act as being a ultra right wing legalistic nut job, as Christianity is splintered and we do go far right as we also go far left. Islam does not do this. Their ultra right wing nut jobs are apart of their base (sunni) sect. and again 90% of all muslims are sunni. this means the Imam who speaks to the isis fighter can also rightfully speak to Muslims here and be well received. To them those fighting in a jihad are nothing more than how a christian would look at a missionary. self less devoted and a true dedicated servant of God. they are not shunned nor frown upon by the muslim community unless you forcably hold their feet to the fire, and in which case they have permission to lie about their beliefs if they are out numbered and believe the truth will cause them harm.
RE: Muslim Imam calls for Homosexual death 3 weeks before pulse nigh club shooting
June 30, 2016 at 2:12 pm (This post was last modified: June 30, 2016 at 2:12 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
"Islam" -does- do this...as you yourself so conveniently communicated to us, while complaining that it didn't.
It's almost as if you've forgotten your own posts just as soon as the words have fallen from your lips. Not that I'm ready to exonerate islam on any counts...mind you.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
New International Version
"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
New Living Translation
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.
Christianity does call for the murder of gays; we do not need a pastor to tell us; it is right there in the bible.
Now; proving that the Quran -which is the Muslim holy book- calls for the murder of homosexuals. Actually, there are no verses which say so, be my guest and search the book from page 1 to page 604.
If you didn't find any verse that supports your claims,please cut the propaganda.
From the Quran. The official source of revelation, not the Hadith.
Killing homosexuals exists only in the Hadith.
-and please; don't play gymnastics around words-, please, admit that these Muslim scholars who called for the murder of homosexuals, counted only -and only on- their hunch, imagination, guessing and ancient tales which Prophet Mohammed himself was reported to forbid its writing.
Those scholars whom you quoted -Dirch-; didn't tell you that their Hadith books contain this exact piece of literature:
Quote:Ibn Saeed Al-Khudry reported that the messenger of God had said, (A) “Do not write anything from me EXCEPT QURAN. Anyone who wrote anything other than the Quran shall erase it.” (B) Again, in the book “Taq-yeed Al-Ilm”, Abu Saeed Al-Khudry said, ” I asked the Messenger of God a permission to write his hadiths, but he refused to give me a permission.”
And another fishy tale, that Muslims don't like to admit:
Quote:From Ibn Hanbal: Zayd Ibn Thabit (The Prophet’s closest revelation writer) visited the Khalifa Mu’aawiyah (more than 30 years after the Prophet’s death), and told him a story about the Prophet. Mu’aawiyah liked the story and ordered someone to write it down. But Zayd said. ” the messenger of God ordered us never to write anything of his hadith”.
Now, a little bit of disturbing tale:
Quote:The farewell Pilgrimage of the Prophet Muhammad is a cornerstone in the Muslim history. The Final Sermon given by the Prophet during this pilgrimage was witnessed by thousands of Muslims. There are however, THREE versions of this sermon in the Hadith books. [A] 1- First version, ” I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided, the book of God and my Family. [b] 2-Second version, “I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided, the book of God and my Sunnah” .[/b] [b][C] 3- Third version, “I left for you what if you hold up to, you will never be misguided, the BOOK OF GOD.”[/b]
Did the Muslim scholars you used to quote, tell you anything about the interesting case that many before me just made?
Here; take a look, the case is long, I just quoted the tip of the iceberg:
Let's not drift away from the main concept. Your scholars of choice don't represent Islam, because they simply don't use Islam's main book to rule; yet use other books -which are called the Hadith-, and which are proved to contain contradiction by the admission of these scholars themselves !
I just proved the contradiction there above, didn't I?
When it comes to the Quran, we have no case of contradiction. I spent 3 years here, testing the book against hordes of Christians and atheists without luck in finding a single contradiction like the one above; 600 pages of consistincy -that don't involve the killing of homosexuals or the stoning of women who have sex-.
Did your scholars tell you that, or did they quote "Mu’aawiyah", the racist who invaded Spain and enslaved the native Goths, and started one of the biggest cracks between Muslim asians and Europeans (one that is still burning until today; one that triggered the Crusades and massive massacres).
He also proved his pure hatred to the prophet Mohammed and his family, when he butchered his family members and literally prosecuted them and their followers, until the Shiite faith came to life; notice that he supported his racist campaign with the same weapon he taught his children to use: THE HADITH.
The same weapon his kingdom used against the Spanish, the French -in the moore invasions of Europe-, and until today, we are bleeding because of the books he issued and ordered to be written.
The evidence is up there.
So he did kill other believers in the name of his racist kingdom, in a direct rejection to the obvious verses in the Quran that forbid Muslims to attack for conquest:
( Sura 2 verse 190 ) Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
(Sura 5 Verse 2 ) O you who have believed, do not violate the rites of Allah or [the sanctity of] the sacred month or [neglect the marking of] the sacrificial animals and garlanding [them] or [violate the safety of] those coming to the Sacred House seeking bounty from their Lord and [His] approval. But when you come out of ihram, then [you may] hunt. And do not let the hatred of a people for having obstructed you from al-Masjid al-Haram lead you to transgress. And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression. And fear Allah; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.
No, Dirch. There are other sects. There are Muslims who believe in what the lord said. Muslims that don't want gays dead, or atheists killed, or Christians killed, or Jews dead.
There are Muslims who fear the heavy day, Muslims who fear God, they don't want to transgress, they want to obey what their lord said :
( Sura 17 Verse 33 ) And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. And whoever is killed unjustly - We have given his heir authority, but let him not exceed limits in [the matter of] taking life. Indeed, he has been supported [by the law]. I'll be honest. I'm bisexual. I like feminine men; what you people call "transexuals". I have feelings for them, I admit it. But my religion never said that they should be killed. Again, go search the Quran and tell me where the verse is.
The only thing you'll find, is the story of Lot. and that story prohibits Muslims from practicing homosexuality, but killing homosexuals is -just like killing humans- is a job of God, only him, and after him the law enforcement that fights criminals and repay "murder" with "murder" (an example is stopping terrorists at gay bars by force). And if you believe, God gave them that permission, and only he takes the life eventually; so in terms of logic; he takes our lives either ways.
God takes our souls, it happens daily, that's why you have so many atheists who reject him, and that's why we need to tell them why they shouldn't. Never hiding why we believe and what Allah -God; not the son or the holy spirit; but God-.
Did you take the time, to research Islam before you state what you said?
Those scholars didn't provide the full image of the moon. To see the proof of that; read my post.
I seriously do not think anyone could be more dishonest if they tried. you have twisted my words so much you can not even quote them in fear of exposing your strawman/lies. I honestly did not even know who you were talking to till you mentioned me by name as your counter point were so far off what I had originally said I could not recognize them as supposedly being what I had said.
What you have done is so disgraceful it sicken me to try and go line by line to expose what you have twisted...
Just think about this for a moment. Be honest with yourself (Even if you can never admit to me or anyone else publicly) at all you have changed in what I said and what I quoted inorder for you to refute my message. Look at how you misquoted me in saying 'I believe that their are no other muslims sects.' Again I pointed to several other sects, but 1/2 of your diatribe goes on and on refuting the idea that there are other sects when I clearly state this very same thing! I said 90% are sunni that means there are approx 162,000,000 muslims who belong to other sects... but 1.62 billion who belong or identify as sunni muslim. So that means 1/2 of you little speech has no bearing on the subject matter. as the vast majority of Islam is indeed unified under one sect.
This is what i find when I study with indoctrinated Muslims. They only know enough of their history and law to make any real conversation manontious and they often default to red herring and strawman tactics to pretend to be having a topical conversation. when if they truly ever once sat down and examined what they believe, their faith would shatter. (the same is true with indoctrinated Christian and liberal athesits.) the point being often times people like you only have a small picture of what they believe and even if what is being discussed has nothing to do with what they know, they will change the topic being discussed so they can put in their two cents. this is what you did here. Know what you think you know, is not even being discussed.
Christianity does call for the murder of gays; we do not need a pastor to tell us; it is right there in the bible.
Now; proving that the Quran -which is the Muslim holy book- calls for the murder of homosexuals. Actually, there are no verses which say so, be my guest and search the book from page 1 to page 604.
If you didn't find any verse that supports your claims,please cut the propaganda.
From the Quran. The official source of revelation, not the Hadith.
Killing homosexuals exists only in the Hadith.
-and please; don't play gymnastics around words-, please, admit that these Muslim scholars who called for the murder of homosexuals, counted only -and only on- their hunch, imagination, guessing and ancient tales which Prophet Mohammed himself was reported to forbid its writing.
Those scholars whom you quoted -Dirch-; didn't tell you that their Hadith books contain this exact piece of literature:
And another fishy tale, that Muslims don't like to admit:
Now, a little bit of disturbing tale:
Did the Muslim scholars you used to quote, tell you anything about the interesting case that many before me just made?
Here; take a look, the case is long, I just quoted the tip of the iceberg:
Let's not drift away from the main concept. Your scholars of choice don't represent Islam, because they simply don't use Islam's main book to rule; yet use other books -which are called the Hadith-, and which are proved to contain contradiction by the admission of these scholars themselves !
I just proved the contradiction there above, didn't I?
When it comes to the Quran, we have no case of contradiction. I spent 3 years here, testing the book against hordes of Christians and atheists without luck in finding a single contradiction like the one above; 600 pages of consistincy -that don't involve the killing of homosexuals or the stoning of women who have sex-.
Did your scholars tell you that, or did they quote "Mu’aawiyah", the racist who invaded Spain and enslaved the native Goths, and started one of the biggest cracks between Muslim asians and Europeans (one that is still burning until today; one that triggered the Crusades and massive massacres).
He also proved his pure hatred to the prophet Mohammed and his family, when he butchered his family members and literally prosecuted them and their followers, until the Shiite faith came to life; notice that he supported his racist campaign with the same weapon he taught his children to use: THE HADITH.
The same weapon his kingdom used against the Spanish, the French -in the moore invasions of Europe-, and until today, we are bleeding because of the books he issued and ordered to be written.
The evidence is up there.
So he did kill other believers in the name of his racist kingdom, in a direct rejection to the obvious verses in the Quran that forbid Muslims to attack for conquest:
( Sura 2 verse 190 ) Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
(Sura 5 Verse 2 ) O you who have believed, do not violate the rites of Allah or [the sanctity of] the sacred month or [neglect the marking of] the sacrificial animals and garlanding [them] or [violate the safety of] those coming to the Sacred House seeking bounty from their Lord and [His] approval. But when you come out of ihram, then [you may] hunt. And do not let the hatred of a people for having obstructed you from al-Masjid al-Haram lead you to transgress. And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression. And fear Allah; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.
No, Dirch. There are other sects. There are Muslims who believe in what the lord said. Muslims that don't want gays dead, or atheists killed, or Christians killed, or Jews dead.
There are Muslims who fear the heavy day, Muslims who fear God, they don't want to transgress, they want to obey what their lord said :
( Sura 17 Verse 33 ) And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. And whoever is killed unjustly - We have given his heir authority, but let him not exceed limits in [the matter of] taking life. Indeed, he has been supported [by the law]. I'll be honest. I'm bisexual. I like feminine men; what you people call "transexuals". I have feelings for them, I admit it. But my religion never said that they should be killed. Again, go search the Quran and tell me where the verse is.
The only thing you'll find, is the story of Lot. and that story prohibits Muslims from practicing homosexuality, but killing homosexuals is -just like killing humans- is a job of God, only him, and after him the law enforcement that fights criminals and repay "murder" with "murder" (an example is stopping terrorists at gay bars by force). And if you believe, God gave them that permission, and only he takes the life eventually; so in terms of logic; he takes our lives either ways.
God takes our souls, it happens daily, that's why you have so many atheists who reject him, and that's why we need to tell them why they shouldn't. Never hiding why we believe and what Allah -God; not the son or the holy spirit; but God-.
Did you take the time, to research Islam before you state what you said?
Those scholars didn't provide the full image of the moon. To see the proof of that; read my post.
I seriously do not think anyone could be more dishonest if they tried.
Um...
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
RE: Muslim Imam calls for Homosexual death 3 weeks before pulse nigh club shooting
June 30, 2016 at 2:33 pm
(June 30, 2016 at 3:16 am)MrNoMorePropaganda Wrote:
Quote:Your scholars of choice don't represent Islam
But, realistically, who does? There are so many different types believer, so many different groups and sects. I don't anybody can claim to represent the majority. No one group has the majority. Just because >51% of people are "Sunni" doesn't mean that they all agree on everything.
This is why you have the different Fiqh. And within each Fiqh you have more disagreements. Allah needs to release a book on Sharia because so many lives will be saved from needless killing.
Here's the thing, there are 3 sometimes 4 schools of thought on how to practice islamic faith under the sunni sect. ALL of which are legitmate ways of worship to the other 3. One of them being Jihad. This means to the nice store clerk or your friendly neighbor who just so happens to smile and wish you luck when you buy lotto, can not or even often times will not condemn the Jihadist as they are a legitmate part of their religion. There are no fringes, there are no extremists (which is why obama and clinton don't like using the term because it offends muslium leaders) there are only muslims.
RE: Muslim Imam calls for Homosexual death 3 weeks before pulse nigh club shooting
June 30, 2016 at 3:41 pm
(June 30, 2016 at 2:12 pm)Rhythm Wrote: "Islam" -does- do this...as you yourself so conveniently communicated to us, while complaining that it didn't.
It's almost as if you've forgotten your own posts just as soon as the words have fallen from your lips. Not that I'm ready to exonerate islam on any counts...mind you.
