(July 8, 2016 at 3:16 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(July 8, 2016 at 3:14 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: If there is only one predetermined path fully determined by prior causes, how am I choosing my own path?

And how is that related to this thread?

Either there is one predetermined future or there is more than one future.

Either you believed if there is one predetermined future then there is no free will or you don't.

Either you believe in free will because you believe there isn't one predetermined future or you believe in free will regardless of if there is one predetermined future.

That's how it's relevant. I can't even know what you mean by free will until I know whether you think it's compatible with there being only one predetermined possible future.

It's relevant to every single philosophical debate on free will:

(July 8, 2016 at 2:33 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Unless you agree these are the four possibilities regarding "free will" we are at an impasse:

1. There is at any given moment one physically possible future in this universe and for this reason we don't have free will. (Hard Determinism)
2. There is at any given moment one physically possible future in this universe but we still have free will. (Soft Determinism/Compatabilism)
3. There is more than one physically possible future in this universe and for this reason we have free will. (Libertarianism Incompatabilism)
4. There is perhaps more than one physically possible future in this universe but we still don't have free will. (Hard Incompatabilism)

I'm a Hard Incompatabilist.

I am wondering where you are deriving "predetermined" from, because you are merely confusing the conversation rather than adding to it.

Either you believe there is only exactly one physically possible future fully determined from prior causes (in other words, predetermined) or you don't.

Oh, never mind.

You are referring to the religious ideal of free will.

I am referring to the secular ideal of free will.

Yes, there is a difference.

It's very simple, far from confusing. It's like "Do you believe in God?"

I'm asking "Do you believe that there is only exactly one physically possible future?"

And if you do "do you think free will is compatible with that?"

And if you don't "would you think free will is compatible with it if you did?"

(July 8, 2016 at 3:26 am)Maelstrom Wrote: Oh, never mind.

You are referring to the religious ideal of free will.

I am referring to the secular ideal of free will.

Yes, there is a difference.

So , hypothetically, let's suppose that everything in this universe is fully determined from prior causes and there is only one possible future.

Would you still believe in free will?

(July 8, 2016 at 3:28 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: So , hypothetically, let's suppose that everything in this universe is fully determined from prior causes and there is only one possible future.

Would you still believe in free will?

Not without definitive proof.

What concept of free will could be proven if there is only one possible future?

For the record, I think there is only one possible future. I think it's most parsimonious to presume that everything comes from prior causes, that all there is is cause and effect.

My belief in determinism is based on Occam's razor and intuition though, it's not hard evidence and the universe could certainly be indeterministic. But indeterminism equates to randomess which doesn't give us free will either. This is why I am a hard incompatbilist.

Determinism/indeterminism is a true dichotomy and both alternatives leave no room for free will besides compatibilist definitions which I think is silly because it's trivially true. Everyone believes in that kind of so-called "free will" anyhow. So I'm a hard incompatibilist.

(July 8, 2016 at 3:33 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: What concept of free will could be proven if there is only one possible future?

You clearly have no understanding of free will.

I cannot and never will understand how "free will" means there is only one option out of the multitude.

Again, I never said that. Please read what I post.