(July 8, 2016 at 12:52 am)Tiberius Wrote: I watched the video of the "execution" and the guy looked like he was struggling and his right arm reached for something, perhaps his own gun, perhaps one of the officers guns. Either way, I think the officer had sufficient reason to use their weapon.

You might have a point if there wasn't such discrepancy between how differently black and white people are treated in this situation. I'm on my phone, so it's hard for me to look. But you can find all kinds of instances in which white people not only reached for a gun, they pointed it the officers, but the officers try to de-escalate and ask them to put the weapon on the ground. With black people, if there is even an indication that the person is reaching for his gun, they'll pump him full of bullets with no regards to de-escalation.

So, the shooting was not justified, because we have seen in other instances that lethal force is not necessary at that point they we're at.

(July 8, 2016 at 12:47 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(July 8, 2016 at 6:18 am)Tiberius Wrote: Maybe some new angle will emerge that allows a different story, but for me, if you want to avoid getting shot by cops, don't resist arrest, even if you know you are innocent.

*emphasis mine*

Don't you just love how he tells him to "get on the ground" where is already laying because the cop just emptied a clip into him?

WTF are they seeing that is so far divorced from reality?

Last night on the Daily Show, recorded before the Dallas shootings, Trevor Noah did an interesting bit about cops and videos.  The analogy to Big Foot is particularly spot on.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...black.html

Scroll down.

(July 8, 2016 at 11:23 am)Tiberius Wrote: I'm sure we'll hear more details in the coming weeks. All I'd say is I think there's situations where there would be a justification to shoot someone you have on the ground. Bear in mind this guy was big, he was on his back (so he could see the officers), he was struggling, and he had a gun. If he were on his front, I would completely agree that the officers likely had no justification for shooting him, but you can do a lot more when you're on your back than you can when you're on your front.

So, de-escalation was not an option? They couldn't have tasered him? They couldn't have shot him in the leg to slow him down?

Lethal force is not the first and only option, yet too many people find it acceptable to shoot first and ask questions later.

(July 8, 2016 at 1:30 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(July 8, 2016 at 11:23 am)Tiberius Wrote: I'm sure we'll hear more details in the coming weeks. All I'd say is I think there's situations where there would be a justification to shoot someone you have on the ground. Bear in mind this guy was big, he was on his back (so he could see the officers), he was struggling, and he had a gun. If he were on his front, I would completely agree that the officers likely had no justification for shooting him, but you can do a lot more when you're on your back than you can when you're on your front.

So, de-escalation was not an option? They couldn't have tasered him? They couldn't have shot him in the leg to slow him down?

Lethal force is not the first and only option, yet too many people find it acceptable to shoot first and ask questions later.

The reports I've read say he was tasered. Some of them say he was tasered twice. He was still resisting arrest after that. The cop pulls a gun out and point it at him whilst he's struggling, and tells him not to move. Presumably, and in one of the other angles you can see Alton move his right arm, Alton did move, perhaps to grab his gun, perhaps to try and grab an officer's gun. That's when he got shot.

We'll know more when the official report comes out, but from what I can see in the videos, the cops did try to de-escalate the situation, but the guy was just too big, and was still struggling.

Edit: If you watch the original video again, whilst you don't see it (the camera is pointed towards the inside of the car), you hear two cracks, which I believe are the taser firing. After the cracks, the video resumes pointing at the altercation, and Alton is still standing upright and resisting. It doesn't look like he has been shot at this point.

A British bobby (policeman) would have just whacked him on the arm or hand with a truncheon ... he wouldn't have reached for anything, if that was the mans intention ....

A Portuguese one would do just the same. Police shootings are a rare occurence here.

(July 8, 2016 at 1:30 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(July 8, 2016 at 11:23 am)Tiberius Wrote: I'm sure we'll hear more details in the coming weeks. All I'd say is I think there's situations where there would be a justification to shoot someone you have on the ground. Bear in mind this guy was big, he was on his back (so he could see the officers), he was struggling, and he had a gun. If he were on his front, I would completely agree that the officers likely had no justification for shooting him, but you can do a lot more when you're on your back than you can when you're on your front.

So, de-escalation was not an option?  They couldn't have tasered him?  They couldn't have shot him in the leg to slow him down?  

Lethal force is not the first and only option, yet too many people find it acceptable to shoot first and ask questions later.

FNM, "Shooting him in the leg" is lethal force in both legal and practical sense. Other than that quibble, I'm with you.

A couple of years old, but still sadly relevant.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/11/28/t...an-police/

Quote:The Shoot First Mentality of American Police

(July 8, 2016 at 2:06 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(July 8, 2016 at 1:30 pm)Faith No More Wrote: So, de-escalation was not an option?  They couldn't have tasered him?  They couldn't have shot him in the leg to slow him down?  

Lethal force is not the first and only option, yet too many people find it acceptable to shoot first and ask questions later.

FNM, "Shooting him in the leg" is lethal force in both legal and practical sense.  Other than that quibble, I'm with you.

What about an arrow to the knee? Dude won't go adventuring for a while.

(July 8, 2016 at 12:23 am)Whateverist the White Wrote: Just hope it doesn't give the police an even twitchier trigger finger.  I wonder if they'll be any more aggressive investigating and prosecuting these shooters than they are their own.  Still very sad for the families of those officers.

That's what I'm worried about. What a fucking stupid move, not only has he killed innocent police who have done nothing wrong, he's also putting more people in even greater danger.