(July 21, 2016 at 6:42 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(July 21, 2016 at 5:31 pm)Godschild Wrote:  I know you want me to say that I live in trembling fear of God each day, that's what ever atheist here believes and I explained that my fear is respect for the most powerful being who has providence over His whole creation. Meaning He can do whatever He desires and would be justified in doing so. The word desire does come with who God is, something I have yet to find atheist understand.
I have gastrointestinal reflux and a chemical imbalance in my brain that sometimes causes anxiety. Why is this important to you and me being fearful of God?

GC

I am wondering if you attribute your own maladies to gods wrath the way you did with your church fellows. If not, how do you discern between your illness and theirs?

 No, my chemical imbalance was triggered by my fathers death and the reflux is most likely an inherited trait. It's not always possible to tell the difference for those outside of a persons sins. In the case of the people at the church it was obvious, several people all in rebellion to God's purpose becoming life long ill or dying before others in the church and then the ones left admitting they were wrong in what they did, not hard to see.

GC

(July 22, 2016 at 3:07 am)Godschild Wrote:  No, my chemical imbalance was triggered by my fathers death and the reflux is most likely an inherited trait. It's not always possible to tell the difference for those outside of a persons sins. In the case of the people at the church it was obvious, several people all in rebellion to God's purpose becoming life long ill or dying before others in the church and then the ones left admitting they were wrong in what they did, not hard to see.

GC

Are the children in your church aware of the rationale you give for this morbid capital punishment scenario? Does your church preach about this in Sunday School as a warning to those children?

(July 21, 2016 at 6:49 pm)lisah Wrote: I stumbled upon Swedenborg when researching Helen Keller. I haven't read a lot of Swedenborg's ideas, but it seemed very complicated. However, his writings I also found to be some of the most creatively inspired writings that I have read to date. Interesting stuff.

Creative to say the least. Swedenborg traveled freely to hell and heaven , drew elaborate and detailed sketches of the landscapes, described the genitalia of the angels. He talked to alien spirits from the known planets in our solar system. All this from a man that was on the verge of discovering the role of the neuron in the brain until he abandoned science to go peeking up angels dresses.

(July 21, 2016 at 6:19 pm)Faith No More Wrote: ...What I'm trying to tell you is that, despite you both feeling that everyone deserves it, telling people they're destined for and deserving of eternal punishment if they don't accept what you're saying is no more courteous than telling someone to fuck off... You can fuck right off with that shit.  

I appreciate the wink emoji. You appear to understand my stance. I feel like I understand yours.

You should be aware that despite our very ecumenical approach to other faiths, eternal security is not part of either Swedenborgian or Catholic doctrine. There is no Get-Out-of-Hell-Free card. When Romans 10:9 says if you profess by your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, they you will be saved that means you must live it. Salvation can be lost. The fingers pointing at disbeliever also point back at Christians in warning. In this respect, Swedenborg is even more strict than Catholicism. In our doctrine people aren't truly saved until they give up sin for good and never turn back. So basically, we're fucked. Or so it would seem. I brought this up with some clergy. They tried to temper it by suggesting that the process of regeneration is more of a spiral than a straight line. I certainly don't get that from the Writings and I have to admit, it find it a very disturbing doctrine - terrifying actually.

(July 22, 2016 at 5:41 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(July 21, 2016 at 6:49 pm)lisah Wrote: I stumbled upon Swedenborg when researching Helen Keller. I haven't read a lot of Swedenborg's ideas, but it seemed very complicated. However, his writings I also found to be some of the most creatively inspired writings that I have read to date. Interesting stuff.

Creative to say the least. Swedenborg traveled freely to hell and heaven , drew elaborate and detailed sketches of the landscapes, described the genitalia of the angels. He talked to alien spirits from the known planets in our solar system. All this from a man that was on the verge of discovering the role of the neuron in the brain until he abandoned science to go peeking up angels dresses.

All true. It is also true that the Writings about spirits on 'Other Earths' is considered a problem text even among Swedenborgians. I will say in its defense that a major theme running throughout all the Writings is the idea of correspondence - that an esoteric meaning lies within literal descriptions. As such, I think the text needs to be interpreted through the filter of alchemical nomenclature. You will find that the spirits associated with the known planets have the character traits associated with those planets. For example, the inhabitants of Mercury are described as flighty with short attention spans. In other words, he is not writing about the physical planets so much as categories of sentient beings, including those that purportedly exist elsewhere in the wider universe.

Historically wondering about the relationship between potential inhabitants of "other Earths' and Christian doctrine was a widely discussed theological conundrum during the Enlightenment. Leading scientists, including Ben Franklin, generally believed that life would be found on the nearby planets. So if Jesus is the exclusive means of salvation, what does that mean for people on Jupiter? It's an interesting topic, one that IMHO doesn't get the attention it deserves.

Why would it be a problem -among swedenborgians- that the man was writing about things that turned out not to be there?  That's characteristic of all of his opinions on that wider subject...and if a person doesn't have a problem with the bits about god and angels (or would refer, in seriousness, to alchemical nomenclature)....it's hard to see what grounds they could manufacture to hold an issue over there not being flighty people on mercury.

(July 22, 2016 at 4:46 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(July 22, 2016 at 3:07 am)Godschild Wrote:  No, my chemical imbalance was triggered by my fathers death and the reflux is most likely an inherited trait. It's not always possible to tell the difference for those outside of a persons sins. In the case of the people at the church it was obvious, several people all in rebellion to God's purpose becoming life long ill or dying before others in the church and then the ones left admitting they were wrong in what they did, not hard to see.

GC

Are the children in your church aware of the rationale you give for this morbid capital punishment scenario? Does your church preach about this in Sunday School as a warning to those children?

 No that is an adult teaching. Why would we they have to first come to know Christ and come to understand who God is before getting into such a complicated subject. You act as if we are stupid or trying to scare our children into believing something, we teach through love and discipline not hate and fear. What I described was God disciplining His people because they knew they were in the wrong and being selfish in wanting to run the church their way instead of God's. Why do you think that the ones that did not die came to the church God was running and told us they were wrong, they understood what was happening. You are probably trying to figure out a natural explanation for this event but you're not going to find one. You could come here and question the people who were involved on both sides of the issue and you would hear the same thing I'm telling you, as for those who were being punished there is only one alive that I know of, to this day almost all of the ones who were trying to do God's will are still alive.

GC

(July 23, 2016 at 3:16 am)Godschild Wrote: You could come here and question the people who were involved on both sides of the issue and you would hear the same thing I'm telling you, as for those who were being punished there is only one alive that I know of, to this day almost all of the ones who were trying to do God's will are still alive.
GC

No thank you. Questioning one of you is all my credulous mind can handle. Why do you say "almost all of the ones trying to do god's will are still alive"? Did someone else die?

Still trying to credit God with these "hits"?

You realise that's not going to impress us, right?

It just betrays the reason you obey: fear.

(July 23, 2016 at 5:01 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(July 23, 2016 at 3:16 am)Godschild Wrote: You could come here and question the people who were involved on both sides of the issue and you would hear the same thing I'm telling you, as for those who were being punished there is only one alive that I know of, to this day almost all of the ones who were trying to do God's will are still alive.
GC

No thank you. Questioning one of you is all my credulous mind can handle. Why do you say "almost all of the ones trying to do god's will are still alive"? Did someone else die?

Sure, this was several years ago, people get old and die. Just thought you might want to personally verify my story.

GC