(July 29, 2016 at 10:44 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(July 27, 2016 at 10:08 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote:

Why do some atheists prefer the label agnostic?

'Cause in a lot of cases, I think, they are simply bullied into using it by religious people.

 In my mind, most atheists are agnostics as it is, I have never ever met a "strong" atheist(one who is 100% certain God doesn't exist), or, at least, not one that would maintain he could prove such inexistence. 

So aren't we all, pretty much, agnostics? Aren't agnostics, in turn, atheists? - And notice here, I'm not appending any more words to the term agnostic, such as theist agnostic or atheist agnostic, and so on. I am simply talking about someone who describes themselves purely as an agnostic. Technically, they are surely atheists as well, since the word atheist, does include someone who just doesn't happen to have a belief in a God. In my mind, the two words are very closely related in describing people, at least in the real world.

Thoughts?



Oh, fuck me, why did I have to post this thread? Fuck's sake... Here come the endless semantic debates.

I don't really know what I think about agnostics.

It's the plural form of the word agnostic, if you were wondering.

Can you define 'God(s)', EP? I think that's Benny's starting point here. If the subject of your question in undefined, one can't really give an answer.

(July 29, 2016 at 10:45 am)robvalue Wrote: I was demonstrating that the person asking the question doesn't get to dictate the only possible answers to cover up for its poorly defined nature.

God means nothing to me. Nothing. I have to have it defined from scratch by each theist. When I use the word I'm only referring to some extremely vague popular properties.

Or you can unnecessarily complicate things which are simple because you don't want to answer a question.

"The question isn't clear" is a valid third answer.

(July 29, 2016 at 10:47 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: See he's just looking at it from an ignostic perspective, EP.

No, I do believe he's pretending other people are dumb by assumming we don't all know what I'm saying when I'm asking another person whether they believe in "God" or in Gods.

I'll thank you to stop projecting yourself onto everyone. You seem desperate to hand our your labels here and it's saying more about you than the issue.

(July 29, 2016 at 10:55 am)bennyboy Wrote:

(July 29, 2016 at 10:42 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: "God is love"

"God is nature"

"God is the universe"

"God is a concept"

Hardly makes you a theist

No, but it does making me uncomfortable confidently answering a question, knowing that any of these might be considered valid definitions by the asker.  All EP has to do is define what a god is, and I can very simply and unambiguously say whether or not I believe in it.  Until then. . . I don't know how to answer.

Do you believe in anything that you call yourself a God, do you religiously believe in an entity, are you theistic or religious to any extent, these unnecessary technicalities you get hung up on aside?

(July 29, 2016 at 11:25 am)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(July 29, 2016 at 10:42 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: "God is love"

"God is nature"

"God is the universe"

"God is a concept"

Hardly makes you a theist

Then it makes him an atheist. There is no third option here, I'm afraid.

Well technically I guess an ignostic must be an atheist or theist with regard to every possible conceivable god, but they consider none of those gods clearly defined enough to actively take up an atheist or theistic stance on any of them. Perhaps?

"If you don't agree with me, you're unnecessarily complicating the issue."

It's not a good look EP.

(July 29, 2016 at 10:55 am)robvalue Wrote: My position exactly. I can't answer gibberish questions, I can only send them away for improvement.

Asking whether you're a theist or an atheist is only gibberish if you're an idiot, I'm sorry to say. I truly am not interested in pretending everyone is dumb as fuck here and talk with that in mind, I'm sorry. I'd rather assume people are smarter than they give the impression they are in this very thread and get my points across with that in mind.