But their god is a murdering fuckhead, Frods. You can't order the death of everything in sight and be considered "just."

(May 7, 2011 at 2:54 am)FadingW Wrote: Religious people are married to the idea of a just god, even if it means defending genocide as justice.

That is because the alternative would be to admit to worshiping an immoral entity, not realizing that the act of defense condemns.

I gave you a reputation boost for this post. Take a bow, you deserved it.

Want to know what is a bigger waste of everyone’s time? You using a thesaurus to define something rather than a dictionary like you were supposed to.

That’s the point I am making, you didn’t define “Just”. You just gave me a bunch of synonyms, which does nothing to tell me how you determine what is and is not “just”. So you just shifted the question over to other words that are synonymous with justice. So how do you determine whether something is “fair”?

Complete straw man argument, and an overused one at that. Please explain how the actions taken in the inquisition and crusades were in any way consistent with the Ten Commandments and the moral laws given to man in the New Testament (The golden rule etc)?

Actually I did not just rearrange your argument, and the burden is actually on you to demonstrate how an argument is illogical, not just to say it is. Your opinion as to whether something is logical or illogical is irrelevant without giving proof. You claimed that an infinite punishment for a finite crime is a form of injustice. This is completely incorrect for two reasons.
1. A crime’s punishment is determined according to the degree of the crime, not the time it took to commit the crime. A criminal receiving a life sentence for a murder that only took 30 seconds is completely just.
2. A punishment may also be justly increased if the crime is committed against someone in an authoritative position. If I call a coworker an obscene name I will get punished. However, if I call my boss the same name my punishment will be more severe. Is this injustice? Of course not. My boss holds more authority over me than my coworker does. How much authority does God hold over man? Infinte. Therefore, an infinite punishment is completely just for any offense against God.


It is a completely valid analogy, and you did nothing to demonstrate otherwise. You just conveniently ignored the point.

You are getting really good at just making assertions and not actual arguments. God can justly punish his creation for original sin because Adam was humanity’s representative. When a representative does something it justly applies to whom he represents. This is why it is just to bomb a country whose leaders declared war on you. You seem to act as if before you bombed the country you’d have to ask each citizen if they agree with what their leaders did. This of course is as ridiculous as saying we didn’t all fall when Adam fell. Luckily, God gives everyone better than they actually deserve and even goes as far as to save His chosen people. The most absurd part of your position is that you seem to believe that God is somehow constrained by what the dictionary (or thesaurus in your case) says about justice. I think the infallible and omnipotent creator of all things is a better arbiter of justice than a 19th century book written by Noah Webster.

You are suggesting it is logically possible to make a rock which by definition is material that is bigger than an infinite immaterial being? That’s absurd, so you are wrong. Your question is completely illogical and does nothing to disprove God’s omnipotence. God can do all that is logically possible. Fr0do did a nice job of refuting your position too I see.

Ahh, so now it comes out! So you believe in a concept of justice that is somehow separate from the opinions of man. Where did this come from? How do you determine it? Is it absolute? You are a very typical atheist, good at pointing out what you perceive as rotten eggs but incapable of laying good ones. Defend the concept of justice you keep alluding to but failing to define please.
Where does God condone the raping of virgins? I condone that God’s will be done, and if part of His will is giving man what he deserves then the glory be to Him. Luckily the God of the Bible is also all gracious and loving.

Your post assumes that all men do not deserve death. A concept that is completely foreign to Christianity, so you are really arguing against a straw man. Christians believe all men deserve death and eternal punishment, so the real question is not “Why does God give men death and eternal punishment?” But rather, “Why does God give His children eternal glorification despite what they really deserve?” You guys all seem to forget that this post was supposed to assume that the God of the Bible is real, so if we are going to do that then you also have to assume that all men are sinners and the just punishment for sin is death. If you do not assume this, then you are not arguing against the God of the Bible and really just wasting all of our time.

I think I made it pretty clear; I gave a basic run-down of how Christianity views man’s will. If you are having trouble keeping up then I am not sure what I can do for you, I am not going to hold your hand and dumb things down anymore than I already have.

Sure you can, if “everything in sight” deserves death. Giving someone what they deserve is the very definition of justice.

Quote:Sure you can, if “everything in sight” deserves death. Giving someone what they deserve is the very definition of justice.

You're still a fucking disgusting excuse for a human being, I see.

(May 9, 2011 at 9:33 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: It took me over two days to come up with a reply that is only logical in my own mind.

It doesn't matter what we say does it. You're going to put your own brand of "logic" on it and your own definition of "justice" and you're going to defend that hateful god of yours to the very end.

You'll make it a point to bog down the debate with arguments about points that were never made and arguments that are of your own choosing, all the while side stepping the real argument and changing everyone's valid points to fit your invalid and flawed "logic". No wonder everyone seems to hate you. Just like your god, you play by a special set of rules that are just for you.
Just because you claim something is logical and just and fair, doesn't make it true ... however, it probably makes you a VERY good christian.

(May 9, 2011 at 10:37 pm)Cinjin Cain Wrote:

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(May 9, 2011 at 9:33 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: It took me over two days to come up with a reply that is only logical in my own mind.

It doesn't matter what we say does it. You're going to put your own brand of "logic" on it and your own definition of "justice" and you're going to defend that hateful god of yours to the very end.

You'll make it a point to bog down the debate with arguments about points that were never made and arguments that are of your own choosing, all the while side stepping the real argument and changing everyone's valid points to fit your invalid and flawed "logic". No wonder everyone seems to hate you. Just like your god, you play by a special set of rules that are just for you.
Just because you claim something is logical and just and fair, doesn't make it true ... however, it probably makes you a VERY good christian.

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