If a child came up to me with a story book and claimed that a magical character in the book was real because it was in the book, I'd be seriously concerned. What have its parents been teaching it?

It boggles my mind that I have adults saying this to me. What am I supposed to say to that?

Not only is the (magical) character real, but the adult also thinks it has "a relationship" with it, whatever that is supposed to mean. And it thinks this relationship is having some effect on the real world.

I do understand how people end up in this mindset. It's just so jarring and painful when viewed from the outside.

Religion: Organizied socially acceptable psychosis.

(August 12, 2016 at 10:37 am)SteveII Wrote: You might not find it convincing, but it certainly objectively evidence for God.

So, if I, and a bunch of other people collected all the accounts and personal experiences with the Mandela Effect from around the world and catalogued them into a book, this book would be objective evidence of people experiencing parallel universe slips. Right? Indisputable evidence of parallel universe slips happening all the time. I mean...if THAT many people INSIST (and they do vehemently insist) they are experiencing parallel universe slips, then it must be true. Yes?

(August 12, 2016 at 10:44 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: The stumbling block that I can never get passed with Steve is the fact that the NT is the claim, not the evidence.  It's no more evidence for Jesus/God than the Koran is for Mohammed/Allah.

Steve's just another Protestant apologist who engages in self-serving sophistry. We're unreasonable to hope for good evidence, as it's normally understood, and we're blinded by our alleged prejudices from seeing how the patently bad evidence he wants to serve up is really good evidence. I mean, how can you not read the NT and just understand, deep down how solid it is as evidence for its own claims? Poor, spiritually blind you! How can you know what you know about the myriad ways people deceive themselves but not understand that when a complete stranger claims to have a personal relationship with a being they can't even persuade you exists, that it's your fault they can't present compelling evidence. Ah, wretched sinner! And when will you pull your head out of your ass and simply accept that circular reasoning is reasonable. How can you hurt Jesus so?!?


As for the Koran, well, that doesn't offer us a personal relationship with God. So there, Muslims and atheists!   

I'm quickly growing bored with this one.

(August 12, 2016 at 10:58 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(August 12, 2016 at 10:37 am)SteveII Wrote: You might not find it convincing, but it certainly objectively evidence for God.

So, if I, and a bunch of other people collected all the accounts and personal experiences with the Mandela Effect from around the world and catalogued them into a book, this book would be objective evidence of people experiencing parallel universe slips.  Right?  Indisputable evidence of parallel universe slips happening all the time.  I mean...if THAT many people INSIST (and they do vehemently insist) they are experiencing parallel universe slips, then it must be true.  Yes?

Yes.

Or Steve is being an illogical condescending buttface.

(August 12, 2016 at 10:57 am)robvalue Wrote: If a child came up to me with a story book and claimed that a magical character in the book was real because it was in the book, I'd be seriously concerned. What have its parents been teaching it?

It boggles my mind that I have adults saying this to me. What am I supposed to say to that?

Not only is the (magical) character real, but the adult also thinks it has "a relationship" with it, whatever that is supposed to mean. And it thinks this relationship is having some effect on the real world.

I do understand how people end up in this mindset. It's just so jarring and painful when viewed from the outside.

Have you ever once met a hard-core believer who was fundamentally honest about his faith? I don't mean earnest (they have that in spades); I mean honest.

Hum......

Nope. Not that I recall.

I don't really see the difference between being earnest and honest.

Well, I can believe that someone believes their conclusion. I just don't believe the justification they are giving me for it.

The nearest I got is when someone admits they are part of the religion because they were raised that way. But then they go on to declare that they knows it's true anyway. I don't think I've met anyone who can keep their story straight.

I do think that some people genuinely don't know why they believe.