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Lee Smolin's "Time Reborn" and the Andromeda Paradox
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I haven't read the book, just a review of it on Sean Carroll's blog. What I'm wondering is how you can reconcile the view of time he argues for with the Andromeda Paradox. I'm sure he knows his stuff, I just don't know how what he's proposing would work.
A Gemma is forever.
Can you quickly summarize what the conflict is in your opinion?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
I read the link
Didn't understand a thing Need explanation for dummies please 
Quote:To know yet to think that one does not know is best; Not to know yet to think that one knows will lead to difficulty. Join me on atheistforums Slack  (pester tibs via pm if you need invite)  RE: Lee Smolin's "Time Reborn" and the Andromeda Paradox
August 12, 2016 at 2:25 pm
(This post was last modified: August 12, 2016 at 2:26 pm by Gemini.)
(August 12, 2016 at 4:00 am)Alex K Wrote: Can you quickly summarize what the conflict is in your opinion? It sounds like instead of a four-dimensional, block universe in which the arrow of time is a result of entropy increasing from a low-entropy state, he's arguing for something like presentism. This is from a blurb on the book: "[Smolin] finds that contemporary physics eliminates time. He argues persuasively that any adequate cosmology rests on making time and “NOW” fundamental. Here laws evolve in one universe, and the future is open to unknowable novelty." --Stuart Kauffman I thought that was incompatible with relativity. According to the Andromeda paradox, the "now" over in the Andromeda galaxy will be different for someone on earth and someone in orbit. I don't see how that could be if there's just one evolving "now."
A Gemma is forever.
RE: Lee Smolin's "Time Reborn" and the Andromeda Paradox
August 12, 2016 at 3:56 pm
(This post was last modified: August 12, 2016 at 3:57 pm by Alex K.)
(August 12, 2016 at 2:25 pm)Gemini Wrote:(August 12, 2016 at 4:00 am)Alex K Wrote: Can you quickly summarize what the conflict is in your opinion? Hmmm. I'm sceptical about this entire discussion if it doesn't yield anything testable (and I don't see how it does) - it might just be a discussion of formalism. Does my "now" on Andromeda already exist or not? What does that even mean? What does it mean for the future to exist already, or not.... I can't help but think that the entire discussion might be about something that isn't clearly defined.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
(August 12, 2016 at 3:56 pm)Alex K Wrote: Hmmm. I'm sceptical about this entire discussion if it doesn't yield anything testable (and I don't see how it does) - it might just be a discussion of formalism. Does my "now" on Andromeda already exist or not? What does that even mean? What does it mean for the future to exist already, or not.... I can't help but think that the entire discussion might be about something that isn't clearly defined. That does make more sense to me than the Andromeda paradox. It leaves me wondering how physics constrains our understanding of time though. Given relativity, would it be possible in principle for there to be an omnipresent being (like God) who is simultaneously experiencing events that are occurring in distant galaxies?
A Gemma is forever.
(August 12, 2016 at 7:13 pm)Gemini Wrote:(August 12, 2016 at 3:56 pm)Alex K Wrote: Hmmm. I'm sceptical about this entire discussion if it doesn't yield anything testable (and I don't see how it does) - it might just be a discussion of formalism. Does my "now" on Andromeda already exist or not? What does that even mean? What does it mean for the future to exist already, or not.... I can't help but think that the entire discussion might be about something that isn't clearly defined. Yes, sure.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
(August 13, 2016 at 1:28 am)Alex K Wrote:(August 12, 2016 at 7:13 pm)Gemini Wrote: That does make more sense to me than the Andromeda paradox. It leaves me wondering how physics constrains our understanding of time though. Given relativity, would it be possible in principle for there to be an omnipresent being (like God) who is simultaneously experiencing events that are occurring in distant galaxies? Thanks for answering this for me, by the way. It's been nagging at me for three years now...
A Gemma is forever.
RE: Lee Smolin's "Time Reborn" and the Andromeda Paradox
August 13, 2016 at 4:59 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2016 at 5:04 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 13, 2016 at 1:28 am)Alex K Wrote:(August 12, 2016 at 7:13 pm)Gemini Wrote: That does make more sense to me than the Andromeda paradox. It leaves me wondering how physics constrains our understanding of time though. Given relativity, would it be possible in principle for there to be an omnipresent being (like God) who is simultaneously experiencing events that are occurring in distant galaxies? Nope. Might seem like a minor nitpick, but it;s actually pretty relevant...even a -omnipresent- being would have to contend with distance. So some part of it is experiencing a in y...and another is experiencing b in z...but internally, these two experiences cannot be maintained concurrently..if...for no other reason...than the time it takes a signal (like a brain wave - or light) to travel between whatever part of it is in y and whatever part of it is in z. Omipresence is silly but a "not even wrong" proposition, omni-experientialism- so far as we can tell-...is demonstrably impossible.
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(August 13, 2016 at 4:59 pm)Rhythm Wrote:(August 13, 2016 at 1:28 am)Alex K Wrote: Yes, sure. If you insist on a being which is bound in its actions and perception to the limitations matter experiences within the spacetime.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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