Science doesn't just provide observations, but also the step by step methods of the experiment/study that resulted in those observations. Methodology is just as important as the observations. Comparing scientific observation to witness testimony is intellectually dishonest. They are not remotely the same thing. Anyone who actually paid attention in 5th grade science class would know that.

Regarding eyewitness testimony, it's considered the weakest form of evidence because of human psychology. Not only are we prone to misremembering events and details, we also remember things that didn't actually happen (http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/01/p...committed/). That's why every prosecutor in America would much, much rather rely on physical forensic evidence in their cases.

So, when you have a group of devout people 'remembering' things about their leader, with nothing to corroborate the fantastic elements that underpin the faith, there's really no compelling reason to believe that it's true. They're already biased in favor of their messiah, so their recollections will be clouded by their faith.

(August 18, 2016 at 2:49 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Science doesn't just provide observations, but also the step by step methods of the experiment/study that resulted in those observations. Methodology is just as important as the observations. Comparing scientific observation to witness testimony is intellectually dishonest. They are not remotely the same thing. Anyone who actually paid attention in 5th grade science class would know that.

Regarding eyewitness testimony, it's considered the weakest form of evidence because of human psychology. Not only are we prone to misremembering events and details, we also remember things that didn't actually happen (http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/01/p...committed/). That's why every prosecutor in America would much, much rather rely on physical forensic evidence in their cases.

So, when you have a group of devout people 'remembering' things about their leader, with nothing to corroborate the fantastic elements that underpin the faith, there's really no compelling reason to believe that it's true. They're already biased in favor of their messiah, so their recollections will be clouded by their faith.

And now RR is going to say, "well if you're going to just TRUST that scientists use the methods they say they use, that's the same thing as FAITH!"

*face palm*

(August 18, 2016 at 2:49 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Science doesn't just provide observations, but also the step by step methods of the experiment/study that resulted in those observations.  Methodology is just as important as the observations.  Comparing scientific observation to witness testimony is intellectually dishonest.  They are not remotely the same thing.  Anyone who actually paid attention in 5th grade science class would know that.

Regarding eyewitness testimony, it's considered the weakest form of evidence because of human psychology.  Not only are we prone to misremembering events and details, we also remember things that didn't actually happen (http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/01/p...committed/).  That's why every prosecutor in America would much, much rather rely on physical forensic evidence in their cases.

So, when you have a group of devout people 'remembering' things about their leader, with nothing to corroborate the fantastic elements that underpin the faith, there's really no compelling reason to believe that it's true.  They're already biased in favor of their messiah, so their recollections will be clouded by their faith.

You seem to think that we are asking the disciples if they remember the color of Jesus' sweatshirt two weeks ago Friday. We are talking about seeing a man you had been with for several years die a horrible death and then appear to them 3 days later and then stick around for 40 more days. Do you think it remotely possible that hundreds of people were mistaken about such a thing?

(August 18, 2016 at 2:47 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Sorry, RR.  All I see is my own post quoted.

Sorry, I hit the wrong button. Edited and commented now!

(August 18, 2016 at 3:03 pm)SteveII Wrote:

(August 18, 2016 at 2:49 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Science doesn't just provide observations, but also the step by step methods of the experiment/study that resulted in those observations.  Methodology is just as important as the observations.  Comparing scientific observation to witness testimony is intellectually dishonest.  They are not remotely the same thing.  Anyone who actually paid attention in 5th grade science class would know that.

Regarding eyewitness testimony, it's considered the weakest form of evidence because of human psychology.  Not only are we prone to misremembering events and details, we also remember things that didn't actually happen (http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/01/p...committed/).  That's why every prosecutor in America would much, much rather rely on physical forensic evidence in their cases.

So, when you have a group of devout people 'remembering' things about their leader, with nothing to corroborate the fantastic elements that underpin the faith, there's really no compelling reason to believe that it's true.  They're already biased in favor of their messiah, so their recollections will be clouded by their faith.

You seem to think that we are asking the disciples if they remember the color of Jesus' sweatshirt two weeks ago Friday. We are talking about seeing a man you had been with for several years die a horrible death and then appear to them 3 days later and then stick around for 40 more days. Do you think it remotely possible that hundreds of people were mistaken about such a thing?

I thought we weren't talking about the bible claims, RR?!

(August 18, 2016 at 3:03 pm)SteveII Wrote:

(August 18, 2016 at 2:49 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Science doesn't just provide observations, but also the step by step methods of the experiment/study that resulted in those observations.  Methodology is just as important as the observations.  Comparing scientific observation to witness testimony is intellectually dishonest.  They are not remotely the same thing.  Anyone who actually paid attention in 5th grade science class would know that.

Regarding eyewitness testimony, it's considered the weakest form of evidence because of human psychology.  Not only are we prone to misremembering events and details, we also remember things that didn't actually happen (http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/01/p...committed/).  That's why every prosecutor in America would much, much rather rely on physical forensic evidence in their cases.

So, when you have a group of devout people 'remembering' things about their leader, with nothing to corroborate the fantastic elements that underpin the faith, there's really no compelling reason to believe that it's true.  They're already biased in favor of their messiah, so their recollections will be clouded by their faith.

You seem to think that we are asking the disciples if they remember the color of Jesus' sweatshirt two weeks ago Friday. We are talking about seeing a man you had been with for several years die a horrible death and then appear to them 3 days later and then stick around for 40 more days. Do you think it remotely possible that hundreds of people were mistaken about such a thing?

So, then tell me what you think of the Mandela Effect?

http://www.snopes.com/2016/07/24/the-mandela-effect/

How could it be possible that ALL these people's memories are wrong?! This must be irrefutable evidence of sliding parallel universes, right?

(You guys are probably sick of me talking about the Mandela effect I know; but damnit, one of these guys is going to acknowledge it I SWEAR!). [emoji39]

(August 18, 2016 at 2:49 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Science doesn't just provide observations, but also the step by step methods of the experiment/study that resulted in those observations.  Methodology is just as important as the observations.  Comparing scientific observation to witness testimony is intellectually dishonest.  They are not remotely the same thing.  Anyone who actually paid attention in 5th grade science class would know that.

I agree, if I repeat the experiment for myself then I would have first hand knowledge of the results. A couple of questions though. If I don't get the same results, does that mean that the original claimants are lying, crazy or delusional? If I am unable to test it and see for myself, what then? I was asking rocketsurgeon for a kit so I could repeat the claims of evolution. It seems that he was unable to provide such.

Quote:Regarding eyewitness testimony, it's considered the weakest form of evidence because of human psychology.  Not only are we prone to misremembering events and details, we also remember things that didn't actually happen (http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/01/p...committed/).  That's why every prosecutor in America would much, much rather rely on physical forensic evidence in their cases.

Care to back up that claim about every prosecutor in America (I realize this is hyperbole but what are you basing this on?)

(August 18, 2016 at 3:11 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(August 18, 2016 at 3:03 pm)SteveII Wrote: You seem to think that we are asking the disciples if they remember the color of Jesus' sweatshirt two weeks ago Friday. We are talking about seeing a man you had been with for several years die a horrible death and then appear to them 3 days later and then stick around for 40 more days. Do you think it remotely possible that hundreds of people were mistaken about such a thing?

So, then tell me what you think of the Mandela Effect?

http://www.snopes.com/2016/07/24/the-mandela-effect/

How could it be possible that ALL these people's memories are wrong?!  This must be irrefutable evidence of sliding parallel universes, right?

(You guys are probably sick of me talking about the Mandela effect I know; but damnit, one of these guys is going to acknowledge it I SWEAR!). [emoji39]

I'll bite.... Your link and the descriptions seem reasonable (concerning the mandela effect). So how do we apply this?

In context, which of Steve's questions above, do you think more closely resembles the mandela effect? We all make mistakes, or remember something a little off.... at times. Some may be better at realizing that their memory is foggy in an area than others. Are scientist subject to the mandela effect as well or do the magic "tests and data" make them immune?

jedi or Sith.

All other religions are false.

(August 18, 2016 at 3:33 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(August 18, 2016 at 3:11 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: So, then tell me what you think of the Mandela Effect?

http://www.snopes.com/2016/07/24/the-mandela-effect/

How could it be possible that ALL these people's memories are wrong?!  This must be irrefutable evidence of sliding parallel universes, right?

(You guys are probably sick of me talking about the Mandela effect I know; but damnit, one of these guys is going to acknowledge it I SWEAR!). [emoji39]

I'll bite.... Your link and the descriptions seem reasonable (concerning the mandela effect). So how do we apply this?

In context, which of Steve's questions above, do you think more closely resembles the mandela effect? We all make mistakes, or remember something a little off.... at times. Some may be better at realizing that their memory is foggy in an area than others. Are scientist subject to the mandela effect as well or do the magic "tests and data" make them immune?

Lol, so you're going to play an idiot rather than admit you were wrong?

No talking about Steve. No talking about bible claims. YOU insisted on belaboring the point that we are strictly talking about the reliability of witness testimony, and it's weight as evidence.

Your position regarding testimony and evidence, applied to the Mandela Effect, would be that many, MANY people testifying to a parallel universe slip is 'sufficient evidence' beyond a reasonable doubt that such a phenomenon is ACTUALLY happening.

No further evidence or testing required. People said so, and that many people couldn't be wrong, or be lying. Right? If you don't believe that parallel universe slips are happening, than you are ignoring valid evidence. Stay focused, RR. You can do this.