(August 14, 2016 at 5:14 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: I'm talking about any kind of Gods here. I notice that we, atheists, generally tell theists they should show some evidence for their claims. I'm wondering, is any sort of evidence even possible? What kind of evidence could conceivably prove the existence of a supernatural being that created everything?

What would that even look like? 

This goes back to why I became an atheist in the first place. The original argument that propelled my atheism seems very solid to me even now, and might even justify a position of strong atheism. Thing is, given the nature of what we're talking about with theism, I really don't think it's a question science(in the "traditional" sense) can or should even attempt to answer. I think it's more of a philosophical question, if you will.

My argument goes like this. If there's a God that created the Universe(the Universe being everything in existence) then this God is either a part of the Universe or the Universe itself. It can't be merely a part of it, since it created it, so it must be the Universe itself. But then, there's no use calling it God. You might as well do away with the shady language and call it what it is. Nature, Universe, Cosmos. Whatever your secular preference.

Thoughts?

The evidence for a god would likely be some sort of remnant, something that would be impossible for a primitive civilization to have built, something that could've only been erected by a divine deity. Such as a monolith that is maybe... 300 meters in height and is made out of solid uranium (no ancient culture knew of uranium's existence).

(August 21, 2016 at 5:39 pm)sciencerulez Wrote:

(August 14, 2016 at 5:14 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: I'm talking about any kind of Gods here. I notice that we, atheists, generally tell theists they should show some evidence for their claims. I'm wondering, is any sort of evidence even possible? What kind of evidence could conceivably prove the existence of a supernatural being that created everything?

What would that even look like? 

This goes back to why I became an atheist in the first place. The original argument that propelled my atheism seems very solid to me even now, and might even justify a position of strong atheism. Thing is, given the nature of what we're talking about with theism, I really don't think it's a question science(in the "traditional" sense) can or should even attempt to answer. I think it's more of a philosophical question, if you will.

My argument goes like this. If there's a God that created the Universe(the Universe being everything in existence) then this God is either a part of the Universe or the Universe itself. It can't be merely a part of it, since it created it, so it must be the Universe itself. But then, there's no use calling it God. You might as well do away with the shady language and call it what it is. Nature, Universe, Cosmos. Whatever your secular preference.

Thoughts?

The evidence for a god would likely be some sort of remnant, something that would be impossible for a primitive civilization to have built, something that could've only been erected by a divine deity. Such as a monolith that is maybe... 300 meters in height and is made out of solid uranium (no ancient culture knew of uranium's existence).

Good grief your guys set your bars low

I wouldn't be found in the remnant architecture of the universe at macro and micro scales, no, it's found in some single anomalous object on some random planet with sentient beings that can wonder "WTF is that thing? Must be from God!"

I know you can do better than that!

A thousand foot tall, radioactive phallus. Checkmate atheists.

(August 21, 2016 at 5:53 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: A thousand foot tall, radioactive phallus.    Checkmate atheists.

Sounds like a big "F-you" from aliens...next!

(August 21, 2016 at 5:51 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:

(August 21, 2016 at 5:39 pm)sciencerulez Wrote: The evidence for a god would likely be some sort of remnant, something that would be impossible for a primitive civilization to have built, something that could've only been erected by a divine deity. Such as a monolith that is maybe... 300 meters in height and is made out of solid uranium (no ancient culture knew of uranium's existence).

Good grief your guys set your bars low  

I wouldn't be found in the remnant architecture of the universe at macro and micro scales, no, it's found in some single anomalous object on some random planet with sentient beings that can wonder "WTF is that thing? Must be from God!"  

I know you can do better than that!

I'm talking about a structure that couldn't have formed any other way; something that defies the laws of physics yet is there - situation about to occur: 

(August 21, 2016 at 6:00 pm)sciencerulez Wrote:

(August 21, 2016 at 5:51 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Good grief your guys set your bars low  

I wouldn't be found in the remnant architecture of the universe at macro and micro scales, no, it's found in some single anomalous object on some random planet with sentient beings that can wonder "WTF is that thing? Must be from God!"  

I know you can do better than that!

I'm talking about a structure that couldn't have formed any other way; something that defies the laws of physics yet is there - situation about to occur: 

And we know all the laws of physics and exactly how they work and all the possible ways they can be worked together?

How is that any different from the God of the Gaps argument "Can't explain it, must be God."?

Why would some mysterious object prove a God?" What exactly do you have in mind? Are you imagining a little signature in the corner of "something in explicable" that says "I did this." God

How about God writes a book explaining history, the creation of the world, and informs us what the future will hold.

After that He comes to live with us for 3 decades, models the perfect life and fulfills the prophecies stated in His book.

Sounds slightly more compelling than a giant rock.

(August 21, 2016 at 6:39 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: How about God writes a book explaining history, the creation of the world, and informs us what the future will hold.

After that He  comes to live with us for 3 decades, models the perfect life and fulfills the prophecies stated in His book.

Sounds slightly more compelling than a giant rock.

Nah. I'd be a bit more impressed by something more difficult for humanity to have fabricated at the time.