(August 8, 2016 at 11:30 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Good point. And I note your implication. The 3 Abrahamic faiths are all ultimately based on Judaism. Therefore.

Is your new avatar implying that you are actually Great A'tuin?

(July 12, 2016 at 10:33 am)Aractus Wrote: https://youtu.be/THWPJE4xaJM

Just... no. Pat's politics betray him here.

1. His claims of 'whining' are nothing more than an attempt to stifle free speech. Yes, a good proportion of younger demographics didn't vote (and they'd better bloody well learn for next time!!) and yes, there's been ageist rhetoric too however that in no way diminishes their right to point out the damage that's already been, and is most likely to be, caused by Brexit. Expert opinion sides with them.

2. His description of what happened in Greece is fallacious. The issues were not with 'undemocratic EU imposition of austerity measures', they were with the goverment who caused the problems through financial mismanagement and outright lies then came crawling to the EU asking for a bail-out when it all went tits-up. The Greek people were sold out by their politicians.

3. We already do make our own laws in our own country. He clearly misunderstands the special terms that the UK has/had with the EU. There are trading and quality standards that we all need to comply with in order to make free trade easier (amongst other shared legislation) and that's often misunderstood as 'EU dictating laws' but that's very different to the implication that we have reduced sovreignity under the EU.

4. We do elect and can remove our EU representatives. There is no 'tenure'. It's not perfect: The European Commission is not elected but it's fully accountable to the European Parliament and Commissioners can only be appointed from the Council of Ministers, all member states are represented in the Council and Commissioners can be removed by the Council via Parliament. Election happens via Proportional Representation thus is more representative of the views of the electorate than FPTP.

5. His description of immigration ignores he fact that current standards of free movement are beneficial to us and has absolutely no impact on immigration from non-EU countries. There, our sovreign borders are protected by EU mandate! Or doesn't he understand why the Syrian immigrant camp is at Calais and not Dover?

6. By 'No-nothing know-it-alls' and 'educated idiots', he's referring to the expert bodies in politics, economics and the sciences who have all-but unanimously come out in opposition to Brexit. He's refusing to accept the consensus of expert opinion, representing centuries-worth of accumulated knolwedge.

7. He's right to point out the bigotry of automatically assuming that all Brexiters are xenophobes or stupid however he's wrong to do so without acknowledging that Brexit would never have happened if it weren't for those on the nationalist right who jumped on the bandwagon in order to promote xenophobia & nationalist hatred or the protest voters who picked the referrendum as an outlet for anti-government sentiment without fully considering/understanding/caring about the consequences.

8. He claims that a vote for Brexit was 'the plebs saving democracy'. This is a clearly mislead position as not only is the EU a more democratic framework than UK representative democracy but it ignores the ordinary people who voted to remain. Further, one of the outcomes is that Brexit has handed over control of the British government to arguably the most right-wing, nationalist body that has ever had a ruling mandate, led by politicians who are outspokenly in opposition to the rights of the 'ordinary, decent people in Britain'.

9. He assumes that nationalism is something to be proud of, something to be celebrated; that isolationist politics and opposition to progressive views is somehow laudible; that he's fighting the good fight in the face of oppression. Instead, nationalism is a tribalistic overhang that impedes social progress and makes all but a select few worse off; a force that divides people in to classifications and seeks to control them according to arbitrary standards; that oppresses the ordinary, decent people under the pretense that they'd be worse off without it.


...and apparently, we should thank him for it.

(August 8, 2016 at 5:19 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote:

(August 8, 2016 at 11:30 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Good point. And I note your implication. The 3 Abrahamic faiths are all ultimately based on Judaism. Therefore.

Is your new avatar implying that you are actually Great A'tuin?

Yes it was, I am The One True Turtle.

Worship me... and I may yet be merciful... then again... maybe not.

Norway may block UK return to European Free Trade Association

Quote:Norway’s European affairs minister, Elisabeth Vik Aspaker, reflecting a growing debate in the country following the Brexit vote in the UK, told the Aftenposten newspaper: “It’s not certain that it would be a good idea to let a big country into this organisation. It would shift the balance, which is not necessarily in Norway’s interests.”

She also confirmed that the UK could only join if there were unanimous agreement, thereby providing Norway with a veto. Aspaker said she did not know the UK’s plans.

Quote:One concern is that Norway, through Efta, has signed trade agreements with 38 countries, including Mexico, Canada, Colombia, Morocco, Kuwait and Qatar. If the UK joined, those trade agreements might have to be renegotiated and future trade deals would become more complex.

During the UK referendum campaign, Norwegian government members, including the prime minister, Erna Solberg, repeatedly urged British voters not to follow the Norway example, saying: “Do not leave the EU, you will hate it.”

(August 9, 2016 at 11:32 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote:

(August 8, 2016 at 5:19 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote: Is your new avatar implying that you are actually Great A'tuin?

Yes it was, I am The One True Turtle.

Worship me... and I may yet be merciful... then again... maybe not.

As long as you keep eating all them asteroids, it's all good.

Brexit: Owen Smith opposes Article 50 move without vote

Quote:Owen Smith has said he will try to stop Theresa May triggering official EU exit talks unless she offers a referendum on the final Brexit deal or agrees to call a general election to approve it.

The Labour leadership challenger said if he is elected, the party will oppose triggering Article 50 until the government commits to a second vote.

Labour will not give the Tories a "blank cheque", he is to tell backers.

Ministers said they would deliver on the "decisive" referendum verdict.

The UK voted to leave the EU by 52% to 48% in a referendum on 23 June but the manner and timing of the country's departure remains uncertain.

The prime minister has said she will not begin the formal legal process of separation by activating Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty this year, insisting that a "sensible and orderly departure" from the EU will take time.

(August 24, 2016 at 2:29 am)Bella Morte Wrote: Brexit: Owen Smith opposes Article 50 move without vote

---

Quote:Owen Smith has said he will try to stop Theresa May triggering official EU exit talks unless she offers a referendum on the final Brexit deal or agrees to call a general election to approve it.

The Labour leadership challenger said if he is elected, the party will oppose triggering Article 50 until the government commits to a second vote.

Labour will not give the Tories a "blank cheque", he is to tell backers.

Ministers said they would deliver on the "decisive" referendum verdict.

The UK voted to leave the EU by 52% to 48% in a referendum on 23 June but the manner and timing of the country's departure remains uncertain.

The prime minister has said she will not begin the formal legal process of separation by activating Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty this year, insisting that a "sensible and orderly departure" from the EU will take time.

---

Well, Owen was looking for his USP. Looks like he's found it. I think that Corbyn's tacit support for Brexit stems from partly from his pevious far-left views (now moderated somewhat), partly from his support base still consisting of far-lefters (who don't want a federal Europe on political principle) and partly because a good proportion of Brexiters make up his public fan-base.

Shroud of secrecy as Sturgeon rejects request to publish costs of taxpayer funded EU trips

Well... this must be embarrassing...

NHS ‘plans cuts across England’ to fill £22bn funding shortfall

While a few months ago...