(August 29, 2016 at 10:53 pm)pipw1995 Wrote: Can you think of any others? Please comment. Thanks!

Because the Christian god is in the Bible described as perfectly good, yet perpetrates evil beyond the understanding of even those who worship him.

He is alleged to know everything, but allows humans free will as if he doesn't know what they'll decide. And if he does know what they'll decide, we're back to a good god allowing evil to exist. Hell, even the Bible acknowledges that the Abrahamic god created evil.

The Abrahamic god collapses under the weight of its own contradictions.

(August 30, 2016 at 1:19 am)Arkilogue Wrote:

(August 30, 2016 at 12:48 am)Losty Wrote: Are you saying all versions of Christianity are true? Even ones that directly contradict each other?

I'm saying it's more nuanced than true/vs untrue.

Religion itself is a growth function of the human soul over time. Primitive humans had primitive religion because that's all they needed. And todays religions are largely unsatisfactory because they no longer meet our growing needs as a global mind.

A fruit bearing tree needs seasonal pruning or else branches will over-grow each other and cross to rub in the wind, weakening them both. New suckers left to sprout from the base will shoot straight up through the established canopy, take nutrients away from the whole tree, over-shadow the former canopy and usually bear thorns instead of fruit (citrus).

If the tree is left to grow too large, the fruit is largely unreachable by common man and no new trees can be grown in it's shadow. By then, with so many branch tips having brought nutrients so far, feeding all of the tree along the way, the fruit is small and dilute even if one can get to it. The bruised and unpalatable fruit piles up underneath these monolithic trees until the space below is more a home for flies and rats than people.

I'm saying you could learn a lot from a tree.

It sounds to me like you're saying a humungous heep of really sparkly mumbo jumbo and hoping everyone will go "Oooh Ahhh".

(August 30, 2016 at 1:27 am)Arkilogue Wrote:

(August 30, 2016 at 1:01 am)Minimalist Wrote: Anyone who thinks a dead jew came back to life for their sins is a xtian as far as I'm concerned.... and welcome to such a dishonorable title.

Label me as you will, it doesn't affect me. It tells me far more about you.

Consider yourself labeled.

You're an asshole, Min, but straight-shooting is good shooting.

(August 30, 2016 at 1:26 am)KevinM1 Wrote: Because it's self-contradictory?
Because there's no verifiable evidence of miracles or a resurrection?
Because bronze and iron age morality shouldn't/wouldn't be the standard of a perfect being?
Because a triune god makes no sense in monotheism?
Because for a purported perfect being, god sure is an inefficient, wasteful, cruel being that sucks at communicating with his creations?
Because I'm not five years old anymore?

EDIT: because salvation by proxy blood sacrifice (a temporary sacrifice at that) is equal parts abhorrent and actively insulting to my intelligence?

I believe I can answer that one with Newton's 3rd law.

And you have to begin with an infinite, substantial (actually there) God. A God that is absolute "there-ness" of matter (quark-gluon soup, no atomic space) that extends forever in all directions...there is no "outside", no outer membrane to define a form. It has no image because light cannot pass through it. This God is impossible to draw. This is the state of existence before the inflation of space-time, of a void space vacuum bubble (universe). The unified state of space, time, matter and forces. God in the Highest. Source. The Eternal One, etc.

This state of existence has 3 equal spatial relationships with it's own substance, namely: 1: What ever point you pick, there is real matter there and it's a center....every point is the center, it is at the center of itself at every where. 2: What ever point you pick, it is surrounded by matter equally in all directions forever as a spherical wave-form. 3: No point is at a higher or lower level of excitation so the entire thing rests as a field in equilibrium.

Now for the creation of a universe. We need a stable void space to open up in this infinite substance and the mechanism I've found is similar to sonic cavitation and crystal nucleation, but we don't need the "why" to answer the "how". There are many ways and shapes to imagine it opening but let's stick with the one inherent in the 2nd relationship - all around, and also represented by the Big Bang model: The Sphere.

So lets go right ahead and open up a sphere of void space in this infinite substance. How might it react? Can you just pull apart a void sphere, wipe your hands and say "tah dah! Universe!"? Or do you have to account for the equal and opposite reaction of real substance?

For the outward "yank" of the spherical space by the infinite substance...you need an inward pull From the perspective of the substance, it contracted to create the internal space. There is an opposing contraction of the substance to the center of the spherical space and the space of the universe is between these two features: A sphere of space inside a solid ocean (Fermi liquid) and a solid sphere at the center of that space. This also conforms to relationships 1 and 2, so what about the 3rd?

There is an equalizing reaction between the outer and inner sphere as a contracted field in equilibrium. This can be demonstrated in 2d with a square sheet of rubber: Take the sheet by the left and right sides and pull outwards, what are the total forces and affects on the rubber? Your outwards traction is opposed by an inwards contraction and if you let go it would fly toward and central point. The equalizing reaction happens in the substance of the rubber as the top and top of the once square sheet contract together toward a straight line vacating the vertical space formerly occupied by the rubber.

In the opening of the universe, this happens in radial 3d. All 3 structures are established simultaneously as space is vacated by the original infinite substance. All three are required for void space to remain open, stable and patterned. This 3 part "holon", as the vibrational container that is the universe, patterns directly for the anatomy and behavior of atoms. They are the micro-standing waveform of a macro container "particle".

The outer membrane of the finite sphere space is the border to the original Infinite. It is the Father God. The inner real point contraction is the Son. The individuated self expression of the Infinite Father. The field between that surrounds and interpenetrates all creation is the Holy Spirit.


From the perspective of the space created and the stuff of the universe within, God "hid" or "veiled" itself. Ever hear of "The Hidden God?"


The field also has a very specific geometry that predicts the structure of music and the organization of sub atomic particles.

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(August 30, 2016 at 1:38 am)Losty Wrote:

(August 30, 2016 at 1:19 am)Arkilogue Wrote: I'm saying it's more nuanced than true/vs untrue.

Religion itself is a growth function of the human soul over time. Primitive humans had primitive religion because that's all they needed. And todays religions are largely unsatisfactory because they no longer meet our growing needs as a global mind.

A fruit bearing tree needs seasonal pruning or else branches will over-grow each other and cross to rub in the wind, weakening them both. New suckers left to sprout from the base will shoot straight up through the established canopy, take nutrients away from the whole tree, over-shadow the former canopy and usually bear thorns instead of fruit (citrus).

If the tree is left to grow too large, the fruit is largely unreachable by common man and no new trees can be grown in it's shadow. By then, with so many branch tips having brought nutrients so far, feeding all of the tree along the way, the fruit is small and dilute even if one can get to it. The bruised and unpalatable fruit piles up underneath these monolithic trees until the space below is more a home for flies and rats than people.

I'm saying you could learn a lot from a tree.

It sounds to my like you're saying a humungous heep of really sparkly mumbo jumbo and hoping everyone will go "Oooh Ahhh".

Are you a certified arborist? Have you ever worked in an orchard? Are you at all versed in biblical imagery?

Do I really have to spell out such obvious metaphor?

Some of the different sects contradict each other and cross, weakening them both.
Some suckers shoot off the base growing thorns and overshadowing the rest of the religion in the public mind like Fred Phelps.
Some monolithic trees like Catholicism have grown so large that nearly all the rich nutrients goes to the structure and not the fruits...which are pitiful and bitter...but people eat them. Because nothing else grows in it's shadow.

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(August 30, 2016 at 1:39 am)Minimalist Wrote:

(August 30, 2016 at 1:27 am)Arkilogue Wrote: Label me as you will, it doesn't affect me. It tells me far more about you.

Consider yourself labeled.

Seems to me that Chistianity(and Judaism, Islam) are all based on the words of a book.

At least the writers of the books claim some experience(of said god), but since then all the sheeples just repeat the words in a book.
(admittedly sometimes Jesus appears on toast :>) ).
So, in fact,you don't worship 'God', you worship the book.
That is blasphemy.

(August 30, 2016 at 2:56 am)Losty Wrote:

You're precious.... Too right!

Here's everything I just said without using a single word.



Recognize it?


Here it is in 3d.



Recognize it?


Remember, the star-tetrahedron is the unit cell of the field and it actually exists as a lattice of them...like this:



Recognize it?

The Bible was written by racist, sexist, genocidal, slave-driving rapists. We may as well read Mein Kampf and look for divine truth in there.

(August 30, 2016 at 3:31 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote: The Bible was written by racist, sexist, genocidal, slave-driving rapists.  We may as well read Mein Kampf and look for divine truth in there.

All 40 authors of 66 books written over a period of several thousand years?

Highly unlikely.