So under all the drivel Snowtracks, it's fear of hell again.

Well, I don't think it's a real place. Even if I did, I wouldn't kiss the arse of some external being on the hope that it will stick to its word while holding my future hostage. That's not about knowledge, it's about surrendering all of my humanity and dignity to a fascist dictator.

What else have you got?

Yes, scientific enquiry is a motivation. But you don't provide science. If there was anything to investigate and any way to investigate it, I'd be all over it.

rob there might get the 'treatment' twice . . . . .

(August 10, 2016 at 6:11 am)robvalue Wrote: So under all the drivel Snowtracks, it's fear of hell again.

Well, I don't think it's a real place. Even if I did, I wouldn't kiss the arse of some external being on the hope that it will stick to its word while holding my future hostage. That's not about knowledge, it's about surrendering all of my humanity and dignity to a fascist dictator.

What else have you got?

Yes, scientific enquiry is a motivation. But you don't provide science. If there was anything to investigate and any way to investigate it, I'd be all over it.

It’s circular reasoning to presuppose that miracles are impossible and conclude that God who performs miracles cannot exist. Miracles are not falsifiable since it’s possible to conceive of an argument that would make miracles possible, one being that God exist.
If the universe had a beginning then the cause of beginning must lie outside of the universe, if the cause is outside the universe, then by definition the cause is some kind of miracle. At this point not saying God caused the miracle, but saying that the cause is not detectable by science which only detects and measures the natural realm, “past-eternal” universe is only a meta-physical speculation.
Astronomers have measurements showing that the universe is expanding and has been expanding at all look back times (because of the finite and constant velocity of light, the farther away an astronomer looks, the farther back in time he is observing). As astronomers look back in time they note that the galaxies get progressively closer together and the temperature of the universe measures progressively hotter in a manner that can be explained only if the universe arose from an infinitesimally small volume and an infinitely high temperature … “It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape: they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning.”, Ref*
*Vilenkin singularity theorem in book - Many Worlds in One: The Search for Other Universes.
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Quote: So under all the drivel Snowtracks, it's fear of hell again.
God made the Garden-of-Eden very good (not perfect), but made it even better by introducing free-will. God knows that it's better to have free-will with sin and evil, than no free-will with evil. Remember, any discomfort of hell is self-imposed by declaring independence from God (People should at least know that His nature is 'good' to an infinity degree).

If something is unfalsifiable, why should we even consider it, let alone assume its existence?

A whole bunch of nonsense, assertions presented as facts, and a misappropriation of astronomy. All in a day's work for apologetics, I guess.

(August 10, 2016 at 6:11 am)robvalue Wrote: So under all the drivel Snowtracks, it's fear of hell again.

Well, I don't think it's a real place. Even if I did, I wouldn't kiss the arse of some external being on the hope that it will stick to its word while holding my future hostage. That's not about knowledge, it's about surrendering all of my humanity and dignity to a fascist dictator.

What else have you got?

Yes, scientific enquiry is a motivation. But you don't provide science. If there was anything to investigate and any way to investigate it, I'd be all over it.

And what would change in your life if some how "scientifically" you proved to yourself that hell actually exists?

(September 5, 2016 at 2:32 am)Arkilogue Wrote:

(August 10, 2016 at 6:11 am)robvalue Wrote: So under all the drivel Snowtracks, it's fear of hell again.

Well, I don't think it's a real place. Even if I did, I wouldn't kiss the arse of some external being on the hope that it will stick to its word while holding my future hostage. That's not about knowledge, it's about surrendering all of my humanity and dignity to a fascist dictator.

What else have you got?

Yes, scientific enquiry is a motivation. But you don't provide science. If there was anything to investigate and any way to investigate it, I'd be all over it.

And what would change in your life if some how "scientifically" you proved to yourself that hell actually exists?

Okay get this...  sure you have hell... how big is it and does it get full or expand and when hell is empty
what is exactly burning or when it is some people in it what is the source or fuel for the fire. Even then eternal damnation
would get simply boring but were as a eternity in heaven in paradise would be worse than hell. 
Food for thought.

(October 7, 2015 at 11:35 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: Bible teaches that Hell is NOT separation from God

Its a place of...
flaming fire
smothering smoke
dismal darkness
screaming and wailing
everlasting chains
flesh-eating worms
no rest

Does it? I'm not so sure.

It's necessary to break it down within its C1 Jewish context.

Most of the usually used descriptions are written in Jewish apocalyptic language, which means it's not to be taken remotely literally. The usually used stories tend to be derived from somewhere else, and therefore can no more be used as a picture of reality than the film adaptation of Lord of the Rings.

Some of the material is used to describe something that's already happened (the inauguration of God's Kingdom), or exclusion from the Kingdom. Translations tend to evoke medieval imagery rather than contemporary C1 usage (e.g. Gehenna translated as “hell” calling to mind Hieronymus Bosch rather than the place of cremation- bodily destruction- it actually was).

Your mention about flaming fires and immortal worms misses the point- these are the main ways of destroying a dead body.

The Spanish Inquisition would be unlikely to consider worms as a tool of torture.

(September 5, 2016 at 2:32 am)Arkilogue Wrote: And what would change in your life if some how "scientifically" you proved to yourself that hell actually exists?

You're jumping the gun. Let's get past that last part before we consider possibilities.

(September 6, 2016 at 12:30 am)dyresand Wrote:

(September 5, 2016 at 2:32 am)Arkilogue Wrote: And what would change in your life if some how "scientifically" you proved to yourself that hell actually exists?

Okay get this...  sure you have hell... how big is it and does it get full or expand and when hell is empty
what is exactly burning or when it is some people in it what is the source or fuel for the fire. Even then eternal damnation
would get simply boring but were as a eternity in heaven in paradise would be worse than hell. 
Food for thought.

Hell, as I understand it, is both a place and a state of being. Pslams 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

My take away from that is people become hellish before they are "sent" there. It may be as simple as like attracting like and no direct sending by a God is necessary.

It is not eternal and it is not torture. http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Eterna...Greek.html
By Tony Nungesser and Gary Amirault

The entire concept of eternal or everlasting punishment hinges primarily on a single verse of Scripture-- Matthew 25:46. This is the only place in the entire Bible where we find these two words together AND only in some Bibles. There are over a dozen English translations which do NOT contain the concept of "eternal punishment" on ANY of their pages, NOR the pagan concept of Hell.

The Greek form for "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46 is ”kolasin aionion." Kolasin is a noun in the accusative form, singular voice, feminine gender and means "punishment, chastening, correction, to cut-off as in pruning a tree to bare more fruit." "Aionion" is the adjective form of "aion," in the singular form and means "pertaining to an eon or age, an indeterminate period of time." (Note: the two words in many, not all translations become reversed when bringing the Greek into English, that is, "kolasin aionion" literally punishment everlasting is reversed to everlasting punishment so as to make better sense in English.)



A more correct translation would be "corrective chastisement for an age."

According to the King David the Spirit of God is in hell/sheol as well.
Psalms 139:77 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? 8 If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.…

So the "buring" in hell I see as a built up resistance to Consciousness. In body we are shielded from full consciouness, but upon death that veil is gone, the power of consciousness goes up and all internal inconsistencies get resolved. Hell is like an unrefined filament (caked with dross and impurities) of a light bulb burning up when the power turns on. Heaven is a refined filament that shines light without burning when the power turn on.