I sacrifice my own sanity here on the forums nearly every day for the rest of you ungrateful cretins, so I'm obviously immoral.

(September 18, 2016 at 6:21 am)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(September 18, 2016 at 6:18 am)chimp3 Wrote:  My definition of self sacrifice is not sharing, benevolence, etc. When a parent makes changes to their lives to raise their children that is well within their stated life's goal. Not sacrificial.

By self sacrifice I mean that your life is worth less than the cause. I don't think society would collapse if we held each persons life in esteem.

Would it be fair to say, rather, that you agree with some types of self-sacrifice and less so with others?

When society is functioning in a healthy way we should operate in a way that each individual can view their own life as worthwhile. My working to have raised my children , even when two jobs was stressful and painful(back pain). But it was fulfilling. Did not rise to the level of sacrifice in my book.

It is wrong for leaders to ask adherents to sacrifice their lives for greater glory, or any -ism.

When society breaks down as in a disaster or during genocidal warfare all philosophies are strained to the breaking point.

So yes!

(September 18, 2016 at 6:30 am)Jesster Wrote: I sacrifice my own sanity here on the forums nearly every day for the rest of you ungrateful cretins, so I'm obviously immoral.

How so? Tell us how we can help, I'll try and make your presence here less stressful if I can.

(September 18, 2016 at 6:31 am)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(September 18, 2016 at 6:30 am)Jesster Wrote: I sacrifice my own sanity here on the forums nearly every day for the rest of you ungrateful cretins, so I'm obviously immoral.

How so? Tell us how we can help, I'll try and make your presence here less stressful if I can.

(September 18, 2016 at 6:31 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(September 18, 2016 at 6:21 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: Would it be fair to say, rather, that you agree with some types of self-sacrifice and less so with others?

When society is functioning in a healthy way we should operate in a way that each individual can view their own life as worthwhile. My working to have raised my children , even when two jobs was stressful and painful(back pain). But it was fulfilling. Did not rise to the level of sacrifice in my book.

It is wrong for leaders to ask adherents to sacrifice their lives for greater glory, or any -ism.

When society breaks down as in a disaster or during genocidal warfare all philosophies are strained to the breaking point.

So yes!

You seem to be focusing on one subset of the idea of self-sacrifice, that of suicide. However it's perfectly possible to self-sacrifice for the benefit of another person or in pursuit of a goal and not take it to such unnecessary extremes.

True. I still think it's wrong to try and convince others to self-sacrifice though.

All a personal choice IMO.

(September 18, 2016 at 6:50 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: True. I still think it's wrong to try and convince others to self-sacrifice though.

All a personal choice IMO.

How do you think charities work?

The world is too large and complex to allow for your moral argument to make any sense. There's nothing wrong with persuasion in itself. It's what you do with it that can become a problem.

Lol "I think X is wrong"= my "moral argument"

Giving to charities aren't sacrifice to me because it makes us feel good when we give to it.

Forcing someone to give to a charity when they didn't want to would be them self-sacrificing and would be immoral.

Chimp3's definition may have been too narrow but I think yours is too broad. It seems like you define mere generosity as self-sacrifice but generosity isn't truly "selfless", we're all selfish.

(September 18, 2016 at 6:56 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: There's nothing wrong with persuasion in itself. It's what you do with it that can become a problem.

True but a self-appointed "I know better than you because I think I am so I'm going to persuade you to do what I personally think is the right thing but I'm not going to tell you that I'm going to do that because that would affect my persuading you and I really want to subvert your own subjective values with my own because I'm an imposing prick" kind of persuasion ain't so great.

By the way if this seems rude I'd like to make it clear right now that I'm attempting to amuse so I really hope someone laughs at this post despite my unfunnycuntness.