(September 20, 2016 at 4:00 pm)RobertE Wrote: The way I see it is this. As atheists we don't need to try and educate those who follow Christianity, Judaism or Islam. They are too far gone in their beliefs that nothing can be done. It is like trying to flog a dead horse. What should be done is the next generation and the way I see it, with each generation that is born, there are less and less Christians on the planet. However, more and more babies are being born under Islam and that has to be the target for atheists. For some atheists, it can be a conflict because they also believe in equality, against Islamophobia etc. For other atheists, it isn't a problem because they don't care about race but the belief system and as far as Europe is concerned, Christianity is dying a slow death and Islam is growing exponentially. So, we should tackle Islam and try and make it go the same way as Christianity;into non-existance.

And then what...a "better" world? With more folks who share your shitty vision of "the way things should be"?

ha ha...I seriously doubt that would be much of an improvement, if one at all.

Count me the hell out.

(September 20, 2016 at 4:35 pm)Thena323 Wrote:

(September 20, 2016 at 4:00 pm)RobertE Wrote: The way I see it is this. As atheists we don't need to try and educate those who follow Christianity, Judaism or Islam. They are too far gone in their beliefs that nothing can be done. It is like trying to flog a dead horse. What should be done is the next generation and the way I see it, with each generation that is born, there are less and less Christians on the planet. However, more and more babies are being born under Islam and that has to be the target for atheists. For some atheists, it can be a conflict because they also believe in equality, against Islamophobia etc. For other atheists, it isn't a problem because they don't care about race but the belief system and as far as Europe is concerned, Christianity is dying a slow death and Islam is growing exponentially. So, we should tackle Islam and try and make it go the same way as Christianity;into non-existance.

And then what...a "better" world? With more folks who share your shitty vision of "the way things should be"?

ha ha...I seriously doubt that would be much of an improvement, if one at all.

Count me the hell out.

So, let us go after Christians and leave the muslims alone, is that what you're saying? I always thought atheists were against all religious beliefs, now I know the reality. Further to that, if you are implying that a world without religion will be a "shitty vision", then why are you an atheist? Don't answer, because I know what your answer will be.

(September 20, 2016 at 4:30 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(September 20, 2016 at 3:43 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Relax, Wooters. There's no shortage of speculation 'round these parts...You and your Christian brethren speculate as to the motives of atheists all of the time.

That's true to some degree. I have my own theories based on personal experience that I've shared. At the same time I don't see long-time Christian members starting whole threads around atheist motivations. Occasionally, I see shit-and-run fundies do that though.

(September 20, 2016 at 3:43 pm)Thena323 Wrote: You need but ask yourself why it is you do those very things, and you'll likely gain some insight.

While it is true that people are often blind to their true motivations, I would like to believe that while I may not be particularly insightful I have done a fair amount of self-reflection on the issue. None of the motivations of the OP seem primary to myself or any other believers I know personally.

I must remind you up-front that I used to be an atheist. People have many reasons for denying the existence of the Divine and I had my own. At the same time, I am the sort that seeks to understand the fundamental questions of the human condition. I came to the conclusion that, philosophically speaking, the most common atheistic approaches to those questions lead to either 1) concluding that reality was absurd or 2) denying the possibility of knowledge. Those approaches come at great cost and seem self-defeating. I have made the existential choice to consider reality intelligible and true knowledge possible. As result I feel reason compels me to acknowledge that God exists, that His Providence guides Creation, that He loves us, and that He desires that we should know and Love Him in return.

See...it worked! You answered your own question!
Kudos for that, buddy.

*highlighting mine, for emphasis

(September 20, 2016 at 3:05 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Why is it so important to some atheists to speculate about why believers believe as they do? Does it make you feel better about yourself by insulting them?

I'll bite.

I think it's important to try to discover what inspires and provides fuel to dogmatic world views in order to prevent their formation or to weaken extreme expressions of piety. Though not unique to the abrahamic faiths once a religious believer feels only they have the sole truth all too often they feel "called" to lay waste to the rest of the world and destroy everything and everyone who disagrees with them. This can be endured at a low level when the "calling" to destroy the "heathen" way of life is undertaken in acts of charity or preaching, but once said believers gain any form of support or affluence they without exception in the past two thousand years have turned violent and oppressive. Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus; all of them do it. The sole exceptions of organized religions I can think of that have not done or endorsed this are the Ba'hai and Jains; purely because they've often been on the receiving end of persecution from Hindus and Muslim's respectively. I have no doubt they too would do the same had they ever gained power.

I think it very important to keep anyone who thinks only they have the sole revealed truth of an imaginary being kept on a very tight leash, or even better prevent such dangerous sociopathic thinking from developing in the first place. It's perfectly fine to think you know better than anyone else, but the dogmatists are never content with that; they feel they have to take over by book and oppressive theocratic legal systems or as has historically more often been the case by sword.

(September 20, 2016 at 4:40 pm)RobertE Wrote:

(September 20, 2016 at 4:35 pm)Thena323 Wrote: And then what...a "better" world? With more folks who share your shitty vision of "the way things should be"?

ha ha...I seriously doubt that would be much of an improvement, if one at all.

Count me the hell out.

So, let us go after Christians and leave the muslims alone, is that what you're saying? I always thought atheists were against all religious beliefs, now I know the reality. Further to that, if you are implying that a world without religion will be a "shitty vision", then why are you an atheist? Don't answer, because I know what your answer will be.

I'm not for "going after" anyone for their beliefs, RobertE. 

And I'm not against religious beliefs, in and of themselves; I just don't happen to hold any myself. If you mistakenly thought all atheists were against people holding religious beliefs, I honestly don't know what to tell you. Perhaps you should lay off the Youtube, and read a bit more.

What I'm against, is the notion of anyone, theist or NOT, demanding that others fall in line with their manner of thinking. My issue is with targeting groups of people with the goal of grooming, coercing, and/or making them believe, or not believe, as is the case in your scenario.

How would you propose carrying out such a mission, I wonder? 

Just curious.

(September 20, 2016 at 4:40 pm)RobertE Wrote: I always thought atheists were against all religious beliefs.

You are confusing atheists with anti-theists.

I am an anti-theist, and I am absolutely against all religious beliefs.

(September 20, 2016 at 3:05 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Why is it so important to some atheists to speculate about why believers believe as they do? Does it make you feel better about yourself by insulting them?

Nope, just worse about you.

(September 20, 2016 at 5:43 pm)Thena323 Wrote:

(September 20, 2016 at 4:40 pm)RobertE Wrote: So, let us go after Christians and leave the muslims alone, is that what you're saying? I always thought atheists were against all religious beliefs, now I know the reality. Further to that, if you are implying that a world without religion will be a "shitty vision", then why are you an atheist? Don't answer, because I know what your answer will be.

I'm not for "going after" anyone for their beliefs, RobertE. 

And I'm not against religious beliefs, in and of themselves; I just don't happen to hold any myself. If you mistakenly thought all atheists were against people holding religious beliefs, I honestly don't know what to tell you. Perhaps you should lay off the Youtube, and read a bit more.

What I'm against, is the notion of anyone, theist or NOT, demanding that others fall in line with their manner of thinking. My issue is with targeting groups of people with the goal of grooming, coercing, and/or making them believe, or not believe, as is the case in your scenario.

How would you propose carrying out such a mission, I wonder? 

Just curious.

bold is mine.

Then you should be looking at Islam then. Christianity is losing its battle to keep believers whilst Islam is acquiring.

(September 20, 2016 at 10:45 pm)RobertE Wrote:

(September 20, 2016 at 5:43 pm)Thena323 Wrote:

---

I'm not for "going after" anyone for their beliefs, RobertE. 

And I'm not against religious beliefs, in and of themselves; I just don't happen to hold any myself. If you mistakenly thought all atheists were against people holding religious beliefs, I honestly don't know what to tell you. Perhaps you should lay off the Youtube, and read a bit more.

What I'm against, is the notion of anyone, theist or NOT, demanding that others fall in line with their manner of thinking. My issue is with targeting groups of people with the goal of grooming, coercing, and/or making them believe, or not believe, as is the case in your scenario.

How would you propose carrying out such a mission, I wonder? 

Just curious.

---

bold is mine.

Then you should be looking at Islam then. Christianity is losing its battle to keep believers whilst Islam is acquiring.

What part of the word anyone do you not understand?
Anyone of any faith, or lack thereof, seeking to rid the entire world of beliefs other their own.

Including YOU.

So, are you going answer the question I asked you in the previous post, or not?

I think one of the biggest motivators, at least that I've seen, is the desire/need for perceived unconditional love... in the sense of Christians who believe that all they have to do is believe in and love Jesus and they will be loved unconditionally in return and all will be forgiven, without even having to ask. But the bigger conditional picture is lost on them.