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(May 24, 2011 at 6:40 am)tackattack Wrote: The purpose of being created would be to live, to which there are millions of reasons for living, if you're having a problem finding one, perhaps you should get assistance.
You can say "God love's me" by opening your mouth and speaking the words, I assume you meant the feeling behind it though
Surprisingly enough almost every conversion testimony I've heard is from when people were at rock bottom. Perhaps that relates somehow?
- i have plenty of reasons to live such as my family, friends , etc
- I said "God loves me" being sarcastic if there is a God im sure he hates humanity ( well the suffering people at least )
- Conversion stories when people hit rock bottom? So when i need an a friend to tell me im special and that He loves me and has purpose for me it would be a great time when im at rock bottom? sounds like a Crutch or something i just needed to believe in to keep order in my life
-good
-so you think God, if he exists, made humanity and hates them?
-Could be a crutch, or it could be that if God existed, he might just have a better perspective to make a guide your path then you're doing by yourself. Crutch is acceptable though, especially if you can admit to having a broken leg.
(May 24, 2011 at 6:13 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:
(May 24, 2011 at 6:40 am)tackattack Wrote: The purpose of being created would be to live, to which there are millions of reasons for living, if you're having a problem finding one, perhaps you should get assistance.
You can say "God love's me" by opening your mouth and speaking the words, I assume you meant the feeling behind it though
Surprisingly enough almost every conversion testimony I've heard is from when people were at rock bottom. Perhaps that relates somehow?
Who says you have to have a reason to live, or that not having a reason to live means you would happily kill yourself? Why should he need assistance in those situations?
Let me guess..he should visit a Pastor of your choosing to tell him what he should hold as his reasons for living.
As far as being rock bottom to hit conversions, I tend a bit to agree with you. Here lately the people I come across who are the most vocally religious are the ones who smoked away a good job, wife, family, and home all in the name of crack. Most of these people have very little education, and tended to have money and jobs given to them for being born to the family they belonged to. They ruined it ALL because of stupid and selfish bad decisions, not needing education to work their way up to it legitimately, and now that everything is lost and they are in the gutter they suddenly learn "the secrets of the universe"?
YES. That is exactly what these burnouts turned Christians are trying to convince me of. That once they hit the fucking gutters suddenly they learned the secrets of the universe and that they are sure they made the right decisions...with a history of making bad decision after bad decision.
Well excuse me... last I checked from their own mouths is that all they could do is make the wrong and selfish decision, and this is no different. And now all of a sudden they "know" god did it, and its a fact? How did you figure that..oh yeah..he came to you when you were high.
Honestly, there will be a time, possibly even in my own lifetime, where the majority of Christians will be former crack and heroine users at less than 20% of the population. From what I have experienced in the last ten years, there is a VERY GOOD chance that if you say you are a Pentacostal, then you are saying "Yeah, I used to be a really bad Heroine/crack user, then I burnt myself out and found Jesus."
I never really thought you'd be baited so easily there rev, chillax. Statistically I would say 99% of suicides have determined they have no reason to live, which does not necessitate that someone without a reason to live is suicidal, just indicative (very). But then 75% or statistics are made up on the spot aren't they?
Addicts do have a strong ministry and conversion rate.. I would agree with that. I thought one of the key points to getting out of denial of being an addict though would be when you hit rock bottom. I didn't give specifics on why, or what area, they hit rock bottom in, you just specified to vilify. Regardless most people who can make good decisions, and live a decent life, have little need to think outside their little box. Most people are content with what they have and have no desire for searching outside of their comfort zone. In that case believer or not, they're not conditioning themselves to see the world they want to, whether that's with/without god(s). n'est-ce pas?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
Quote:Suicide risk is strongly associated with mental illness, unemployment, low income, marital status, and family history of suicide. The effect of most risk factors differs significantly by gender.
And all of those are a trend towards lacking something (ie. normative mental state, family, relationship, success, etc.) as compared to societal norms. There is that much better without the numbers.. I figured it was common enough thought to toss in a little joke, but apparently I have to struggle for even a well substantiated common point... hmmm that's very telling min
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
May 24, 2011 at 10:23 pm (This post was last modified: May 24, 2011 at 10:34 pm by bbrettle.)
tackattack Wrote:-so you think God, if he exists, made humanity and hates them?
-Could be a crutch, or it could be that if God existed, he might just have a better perspective to make a guide your path then you're doing by yourself. Crutch is acceptable though, especially if you can admit to having a broken leg.
- Sure wouldnt that be a logical assumtion ? aside from the fact that He made pain and He is dragging parts of humanity through it (for no good reason)?
- i cant afford believing in Christ im a conservative with me time and money ( to think of all the broken legs ide have ^^ )
(May 24, 2011 at 4:20 pm)Timothy Wrote:
(May 24, 2011 at 12:26 pm)bbrettle Wrote: i couldnt thruthfully answer them.... i would basically just lie to myself and say oh "God has a plan and a purpose" for all the helpless people in this world and go on stuffing my face ( american =p )
Do you think that response is consistent with what the Bible teaches?
no, not at all i know the love of the Lord in the Bible... And parts where God isnt so loving ( slaying entire nations of people with fire )
"You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss." -Cypher (the matrix)
(May 24, 2011 at 6:40 am)tackattack Wrote: Surprisingly enough almost every conversion testimony I've heard is from when people were at rock bottom. Perhaps that relates somehow?
A valid point Tack. I know it relates.
Every conversion story I've ever heard from a drug addict, prostitute, or alcoholic has always been the same .... "I found god when I thought I was at the end of my life" (ie. rock bottom)
(My dad helped run an intervention center at his church for years. I heard it A LOT!)
May 25, 2011 at 2:17 am (This post was last modified: May 25, 2011 at 6:43 am by Timothy.)
(May 24, 2011 at 10:23 pm)bbrettle Wrote: no, not at all i know the love of the Lord in the Bible... And parts where God isnt so loving ( slaying entire nations of people with fire )
Then you know what the Bible says about God's heart for the poor and the oppressed (James 1:27) and the rich and oppressive (James 5:1-6), that God commands His people not to store up riches for themselves (Matthew 6:19-20) but to give up what you have to serve others (Isaiah 58:6-7). So if this is God's heart and His people's mission, why is there still poverty and oppression? One large part of that answer has to be that those of us who are fortunate have not lived according to the purpose that He has for us, and that our comfortable lifestyles directly or indirectly cause suffering. In which case, should your questions be addressed to God, or to ourselves?
@bb- So your understanding of God is the great puppeteer, where we have no free will then?
@cinjin- glad we can agree, I had hit rock bottom myself. But like I pointed out to min, vilifying Christians into either idiots or addicts would be inaccurate, as I was neither. Glad your dad could help so many people, that should be a positive testimony to the good religion can do when focused on helping those in need.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
(May 25, 2011 at 2:20 am)tackattack Wrote: @cinjin- glad we can agree, I had hit rock bottom myself. But like I pointed out to min, vilifying Christians into either idiots or addicts would be inaccurate, as I was neither. Glad your dad could help so many people, that should be a positive testimony to the good religion can do when focused on helping those in need.
no doubt about it. My dad definitely helped a lot addicts and whores.
Now if only we could keep him from teaching them to hate other people and deny their own families for Jesus.
Then he didn't really help him did he? Anyone can give a destitute money and a place to stay, that's not the kind of help they need though. Give a man a fish...
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
May 25, 2011 at 2:43 am (This post was last modified: May 25, 2011 at 2:44 am by Cinjin.)
(May 25, 2011 at 2:17 am)Timothy Wrote: So if this is God's heart and His people's mission, why is there still poverty and oppression? One large part of that answer has to be that those of us who are fortunate have not lived according to the purpose that He has for us, and that our comfortable lifestyles directly or indirectly cause suffering. In which case, should your questions be addressed to God, or to ourselves?
So the most powerful being in the universe tells a VERY small percent of the population to carry the burden of making sure the MASSIVE majority of the rest of the population is well-cared for.
Meanwhile, your god sits on his ass and doesn't do a damn thing with his unlimited power accept ALLOW the suffering.
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