(September 30, 2016 at 7:42 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

(September 30, 2016 at 1:54 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: And if outside equals dissolution?

I can see it's time for this again.

They
Jesus Fucking Christ GB ! That took some time. Thanks!

(September 30, 2016 at 3:50 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 30, 2016 at 3:31 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Some would rather worship an obscure, unknown God whom they live in fear of.

I don't and won't.

I asked you a couple times and I believe I received no answer.  Is there any benefit to knowing your complicated vision of God?  According to your concept, are they any rewards received by a person who accepts your idea of God?  Do we owe God love, worship or anything at all?

The core idea is very simple, it is pure substance and nothing else, infinite and one. Absolute existence and there is no nothing any where to be found. There is no non-existence nor possibility to "decay" into anything else. It is objectively extant and eternal.

What God does to form a universe is also very simple. It expresses it's own existence.

The specific resulting bends of space-time that unfold within each universe (I call the Image of God) is less complex than a bicycle. It has only 10 parts total, unfolded in 4 steps. It's composed of only 4 basic shapes with only 1 variation of 2 of them. Only 5 parts of the 10 are moving. More simple than your hand. Combined they are to me the atlas of the Kingdom of Heaven within me and all around me.

The full model of the metaverse and it's processes speaks to me of a perfect parental God who is both Mother and Father to us. Each of the individual universes is also an individual developing soul. You are one of them and so am I. We are all patterned by the Father and held in the material body of the Mother as developing, individuated expressions of the Living One. "Ye are gods." There have been teachers before us who have shown us the Way, the most recent being Jesus. I believe he was more than a teacher and a physical incarnation of one of the 10 parts of the Image of God specifically the One. The finite self individuation of the original infinite God, at the center of each universe. In the midst of the "Kingdom" as the central point of the universe. It's gravitational center.


Benefits of my view include a peace that surpasses all my understanding and the faith of God. Of God's ultimate perfection and completion/fulfillment of His Word. Barring the possibility of annihilation we are "doomed" to perfection by a perfect God no matter how long we choose to take. God does not run out of patience, power or possibility to tend and grow the souls He/She has birthed. My view of the relationship of the universe to God is more fundamental than "intelligent design", it is a biological design and it could not have worked out any other stable way. This is not "creation", it's a pro-creation and here we are.

God loves me no matter what I think or do because that is one of God's fundamental natures as an absolute force of existence. But I can set up my vessel towards harmonious and directed travel through creation/Law to God or disharmonious interaction, getting lost and subsequent dissolution. Being open to instruction and correction greatly reduces resistance as a growing being.

The most fundamental use of this information to me is as a constant source of joy in my soul. Not matter what happens to me in this world, or who I become, whether I'm invited to heaven or make a bed in hell, I can knowingly praise God and the perfection provided to exist by and in.

I suppose the main benefit is that I can operate beyond the level of personal belief and the goals of a single life time as I have no fear of death.

I have found many benefits, but there are also risks and responsibilities for crossing this rubicon.

(September 30, 2016 at 5:27 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(September 30, 2016 at 4:00 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Never claimed it was. I've maintained it's a cultural rehash of a very old story.

You've maintained wrong.

Meh. I see patterns where you do not. It's as simple as that.

(September 30, 2016 at 5:57 pm)Primordial Bisque Wrote:

(September 30, 2016 at 3:47 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Even older as the symbol for Ra/Re in Egypt. The self created, creator God who rose upon the primordial mound from the infinite chaos of the watery Nu, the father of Re/Ra.

It's as magical as the atom with a nucleus and a spherical, shell like border condition

The claim is that God is an eternal, all-consuming field of energy (fire) which exists outside of the observable universe, responsible for all of creation, and connected in some fashion to our lives. Ancient mysticism laced with scientific jargon aside; it's a lot of woo to take in without ample suspension of disbelief.

I do share your stance on the holy texts of the area, during that era, being different versions of the same mythology. The Epic of Gilgamesh comes to mind. Shamhat was also much better looking that old Evie, so I may be biased.

It's just the logical (Newtonian) progression of a cosmological model and it gives many predictions on the order of the universe, much of it all ready found by modern science. My objective confidence is mostly based on that. It hits the most check boxes with the least amount of complexity/special pleading. "Creation" is pretty much all a cascaded of equal/opposing action/reaction in the wake of "God's" movement.

I've found many underlying patterns: An initial infinite watery mass, vabration/word/expression of God, waters divide/vibration creates space and form, God is self born by vibration of "spirit" from a virgin ocean (in Latin ocean is mari) I could go on and on.

*GASP* Hush your mouth!

(September 30, 2016 at 7:32 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote:

(September 29, 2016 at 2:08 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: To primitive man, the ocean appears infinite.
Have you ever been head over heels in young love?  Did you feel like there was anything in the world that could stop you?

The 10 veils are different: 2 are solid objects, 1 is a field, 1 is a massless 2 spin membrane, another is a vertical electromagnetic field and 4 are horizontal toroidal EM fields like tokamaks

Careful your ass doesn't slam closed because you were pulling shit out of it too fast. I've heard that can be quite painful.

Love is shown by actions.

Do I feel loved by the "design" of my environment, and any subsequent involvement of an alledged designer? Nope.

Do I feel unloved? Nope.

Do I feel that any being who actually loved me and had huge power would make my life better than this? Absolutely. Everyone who loves me has made a big effort to improve my life in some way. If this is the best the designer can do, he is rubbish, quite frankly. And a sick twisted bastard for giving me an imagination capable of easily concocting a life infinitely superior to this one.

If there is a designer, what is my opinion of him/her/it? Not much. I doubt they are even aware that any "life" here has become self-aware. I hold no grudge against them for whatever purpose they have designed this reality for. Some sort of simulation I imagine.

(September 29, 2016 at 2:16 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:

(September 28, 2016 at 8:14 am)Tazzycorn Wrote: You do know that water is matter, correct? Or are you that scientifically illiterate that you don't understand basic terms taught to five year olds?

You do know that the actual stuff of the atoms of water take up 0.00000000001% of the space of the atom?
Atoms are barely material at all, they're scarcely the faint whiff of a homeopathic ghost fart..

What I am talking about is matter taking up all available space, pure absolute matter. No void space, no atomic space, no space not filled up with matter. 100% mass.

Yes, you ignorant, unlettered baboon, I understand that at subatomic levels all matter is mostly empty space. It no more means that water isn't matter any more than the rock Samuel Johnson kicked isn't matter. Atoms are matter no matter how muck your science denying relugious views want you to think otherwise.

So what you're saying is that god is a neutron star, the densest form of matter there is? Look Arkilogue, sto talking about science, you haven't the first clue about even the most basic stuff that they teach in primary schools, and it is clear you don't give one fuck about learning any science. All you see is that you can twist basic ideas into a tortured form which represents your own personal form of christianity, abandoning all ideas of evidence, objectivity or even sense. The problem for you is that the more you talk the more an idiot you show yourself to be.

By your own words you have dismissed everything considered material as non-material simply because you don't understand the difference between micro and macro.

(September 29, 2016 at 12:46 pm)Lek Wrote: That's a real general statement that doesn't refute the benefit following God.  We all put our faith in things or people that we deem to be worthy of that faith.  Most of us put our faith in doctors, teachers, scientists, etc.  If we discover that these individuals or institutions are unworthy of our faith and trust than we usually abandon them.

Big difference between putting your trust in a doctor and putting your trust in an unevidenced being. First of all we know the doctor exists, we can check his credentials and look up databases kept by the local medical board(s) to ensure that he is keeping his training up to date and that he has no malpractice issues hanging over him. As yhwh is totally unevidenced we can do precisely no checking up on him.

And secondly we don't put our trust in doctors unconditionally in all areas. If I go to my GP with a strange feeling in my heart, I expect him to be able to test me and go either "ok there's nothing wrong with you other than eating more slowly won't cure. Get some rennies" or "yeah that looks a problem. I've seen it before in other patients/I've read it in medical textbooks/I've never experienced this before [delete as apppropriate] better send you to the cardiologist so that she can check you out more thoroughly than I can". I would not expect my GP to be able to fully diagnose a serious heart condition and cure me of it in the one visit. And branching it out further, I wouldn't expect him to be able to give me stock market advice, fix my car and predict who Angelina Jolie's next husband is going to be at the same time. What you expect from god is exactly the kind of thing I do not expect from human experts, full knowledge in all areas and full ability to act on that knowledge.

Quote:I would never suggest that we should follow a god that is evil, unloving, etc.

But, objectively speaking, from the description in the bible you do follow an evil and unloving god. You follow a god for whom rape is ok, for whom racist slavery is ok, for whom murder is an acceptable punishment for trivial transgressions, for whom it is ok to go out and slaughter your neighbour and his family for their land and cattle (as long as they are not the same religion as you). By any measure that we can use yhwh would be evil if he were real.

Quote:Relying on a higher power doesn't consist of waking up every day and stopping, consulting God and waiting for answer before we act, as if anyone really does that.  At least represent theists realistically, if you're going to form conclusions about us.  I make my daily decisions based on the morality I have formed through my experience with God and his presence in me at all times.

But it does depend on you making up an imaginary being to justify to yourself and others your morality and why you do what you do. I have no need for a voice inside my head to explain to me how and why I should take an action. I own up to my faults and mistakes because it is the right thing to do.

The rest of your post descends in to pointless sophistry, it is pointless dealing with them other than to say they are useless.

(September 30, 2016 at 8:19 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:

(September 30, 2016 at 3:50 pm)Lek Wrote: I asked you a couple times and I believe I received no answer.  Is there any benefit to knowing your complicated vision of God?  According to your concept, are they any rewards received by a person who accepts your idea of God?  Do we owe God love, worship or anything at all?

The core idea is very simple, it is pure substance and nothing else, infinite and one. Absolute existence and there is no nothing any where to be found. There is no non-existence nor possibility to "decay" into anything else. It is objectively extant and eternal.

What God does to form a universe is also very simple. It expresses it's own existence.

The specific resulting bends of space-time that unfold within each universe (I call the Image of God) is less complex than a bicycle. It has only 10 parts total, unfolded in 4 steps. It's composed of only 4 basic shapes with only 1 variation of 2 of them. Only 5 parts of the 10 are moving. More simple than your hand. Combined they are to me the atlas of the Kingdom of Heaven within me and all around me.

The full model of the metaverse and it's processes speaks to me of a perfect parental God who is both Mother and Father to us. Each of the individual universes is also an individual developing soul. You are one of them and so am I. We are all patterned by the Father and held in the material body of the Mother as developing, individuated expressions of the Living One. "Ye are gods." There have been teachers before us who have shown us the Way, the most recent being Jesus. I believe he was more than a teacher and a physical incarnation of one of the 10 parts of the Image of God specifically the One. The finite self individuation of the original infinite God, at the center of each universe. In the midst of the "Kingdom" as the central point of the universe. It's gravitational center.


Benefits of my view include a peace that surpasses all my understanding and the faith of God. Of God's ultimate perfection and completion/fulfillment of His Word. Barring the possibility of annihilation we are "doomed" to perfection by a perfect God no matter how long we choose to take. God does not run out of patience, power or possibility to tend and grow the souls He/She has birthed. My view of the relationship of the universe to God is more fundamental than "intelligent design", it is a biological design and it could not have worked out any other stable way. This is not "creation", it's a pro-creation and here we are.

God loves me no matter what I think or do because that is one of God's fundamental natures as an absolute force of existence. But I can set up my vessel towards harmonious and directed travel through creation/Law to God or disharmonious interaction, getting lost and subsequent dissolution. Being open to instruction and correction greatly reduces resistance as a growing being.

The most fundamental use of this information to me is as a constant source of joy in my soul. Not matter what happens to me in this world, or who I become, whether I'm invited to heaven or make a bed in hell, I can knowingly  praise God and the perfection provided to exist by and in.

I suppose the main benefit is that I can operate beyond the level of personal belief and the goals of a single life time as I have no fear of death.

I have found many benefits, but there are also risks and responsibilities for crossing this rubicon.

Thanks for your thorough and sincere answer. I assume that since Jesus was one of his teachers and that Jesus taught that God loves us and wants a relationship with us, that you believe that God must be in a personal relationship with all beings. In following Jesus his messenger, I am in harmony with God?

(October 1, 2016 at 6:26 am)Tazzycorn Wrote:

(September 29, 2016 at 2:16 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: You do know that the actual stuff of the atoms of water take up 0.00000000001% of the space of the atom?
Atoms are barely material at all, they're scarcely the faint whiff of a homeopathic ghost fart..

What I am talking about is matter taking up all available space, pure absolute matter. No void space, no atomic space, no space not filled up with matter. 100% mass.

Yes, you ignorant, unlettered baboon, I understand that at subatomic levels all matter is mostly empty space. It no more means that water isn't matter any more than the rock Samuel Johnson kicked isn't matter. Atoms are matter no matter how muck your science denying relugious views want you to think otherwise.

So what you're saying is that god is a neutron star, the densest form of matter there is? Look Arkilogue, sto talking about science, you haven't the first clue about even the most basic stuff that they teach in primary schools, and it is clear you don't give one fuck about learning any science. All you see is that you can twist basic ideas into a tortured form which represents your own personal form of christianity, abandoning all ideas of evidence, objectivity or even sense. The problem for you is that the more you talk the more an idiot you show yourself to be.

By your own words you have dismissed everything considered material as non-material simply because you don't understand the difference between micro and macro.

Never said they weren't matter, I said they barely were and mostly aren't.

No neutron stars are not even close to the densest form of matter. They are nearly identical to protons. Neutrons like protons are very large spheres compared to the tiny 2 down quarks and 1 up quark they are composed of...plus virtual particle annihilations. And you tell me I don't science......hilarious!

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1...ctuations/

Matter is built on flaky foundations. Physicists have now confirmed that the apparently substantial stuff is actually no more than fluctuations in the quantum vacuum.

The researchers simulated the frantic activity that goes on inside protons and neutrons. These particles provide almost all the mass of ordinary matter.

Each proton (or neutron) is made of three quarks – but the individual masses of these quarks only add up to about 1% of the proton’s mass. So what accounts for the rest of it?

Theory says it is created by the force that binds quarks together, called the strong nuclear force. In quantum terms, the strong force is carried by a field of virtual particles called gluons, randomly popping into existence and disappearing again. The energy of these vacuum fluctuations has to be included in the total mass of the proton and neutron.





Anything else you'd like to add for comedic relief?