Quote:That would be correct, if you believe that the morals in the Bible and Quran are man-made.

They have to be. Your god is as phony as all the others.

(June 2, 2011 at 6:32 am)tackattack Wrote: And what is the practical use difference between intersubjective and an objective moral standard?

Not everyone sees an intersubjective standard. A group of ants in an anthill hold the intersubjective belief that all other ants are out to kill them. A group of humans living in the house down the way hold the intersubjective belief that the ants are all up to no good.

Subjective beliefs (of a person). If these are similar of a group of people: intersubjective beliefs (of a group). If all groups and all people hold the exact same beliefs: objective beliefs.

Hence the required distinction

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(June 2, 2011 at 12:00 pm)Rayaan Wrote:

(June 2, 2011 at 4:29 am)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Also, the bible/koran is an intersubjective morality, not an objective morality (you will notice I don't hold it).

That would be correct, if you believe that the morals in the Bible and Quran are man-made.

On the other hand, I do agree with you that the element of subjectivity cannot be taken away completely even if the morals came from God, because believers may interpret their scriptures differently from each other, or interpret a specific verse in a book differently, since all interpretations are basically a subjective labor.

Even God(s) have a viewpoint. To see all as Akylios does is to be a thing beyond madness, for which there are no words and there remains no semblance of anything sensible. And even that thing, which holds all viewpoints, holds the subjective view of everything as everything as everything as everything.

Objectivity requires all.

(June 2, 2011 at 12:36 pm)Minimalist Wrote: They have to be. Your god is as phony as all the others.

He just sounds phony to you perhaps.

(June 2, 2011 at 2:02 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Subjective beliefs (of a person). If these are similar of a group of people: intersubjective beliefs (of a group). If all groups and all people hold the exact same beliefs: objective beliefs.

Point noted.

(June 2, 2011 at 8:47 am)reverendjeremiah Wrote: That it is all merely personal opinion

(June 2, 2011 at 2:02 pm)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Not everyone sees an intersubjective standard. A group of ants in an anthill hold the intersubjective belief that all other ants are out to kill them. A group of humans living in the house down the way hold the intersubjective belief that the ants are all up to no good.

Subjective beliefs (of a person). If these are similar of a group of people: intersubjective beliefs (of a group). If all groups and all people hold the exact same beliefs: objective beliefs.

Hence the required distinction

OK then to both of you. In a group of people identified as believing that nothing is 100% knowable and that life is experiential first and consequential second ; what would you suppose they see as objective.

Let's say they all experienced gravity, knew through repetition that throwing an apple up means it falls down (but not necessarily) and holding the belief the belief that nothing is 100% knowable (agnostic) Do you think they see gravity as objective or intersubjective?

Not many people go out of their way to denote an experience that everyone seems to experience as objective or intersubjective... the only one that matters to them is the intersubjective, as who really gives their left ankle about objectivity?

Yet objective evidence is all I ever hear about. Why?

Quote:He just sounds phony to you perhaps.

No. They ALL sound phony. "Allah" is nothing special, Rayaan. Just one more brain fart that man created because of some need to create explanations - no matter how stupid - for the world around him.

(June 3, 2011 at 4:39 am)tackattack Wrote: Yet objective evidence is all I ever hear about. Why?

Because the people asking for it don't even know what that is and say it because it sounds clever?

(June 3, 2011 at 3:25 am)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: Not many people go out of their way to denote an experience that everyone seems to experience as objective or intersubjective... the only one that matters to them is the intersubjective, as who really gives their left ankle about objectivity?

Thankyou! This whole "subjective/objective" thing can get way out of hand sometimes..especially when someone tries to compare something that is physically testable and repeatable (like gravity) to something that is based on faulty human feelings and emotions (morals)

I will not lie. I pick and choose what I think is moral just like everyone else. I feel that Muhammad and his 9 year old wife (who was forced to marry him) is immoral. I realize it is merely my opinion, and that other people may think different. But that is OTHER people..not me. What I think is what matters in this situation, not them.

Hi...
Girls in middle age, married between 12 and 16 years of age.
So I think that was usual, today is immoral and pedophilia...