(November 9, 2016 at 10:27 am)Shell B Wrote: I will never even remotely recognize him as POTUS. I'm from Massachusetts. The rest of the country might as well be fucking Mars to me right now.

you always have
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmme5rHRzCs

(November 10, 2016 at 10:49 am)Drich Wrote:

(November 9, 2016 at 8:02 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: It says to me that enough U.S. Citizens are uneducated (that was his base demographic after all, before anyone gets all offended by my word choice), ignorant, followers in desperate need of someone to say things that make them feel safe; followers who fall back on hate, scapegoating, and bigotry in order to assuage their own irrational fears, and fill in the spaces where tangible knowledge and critical thinking should be.  

It says to me that America wanted a playground bully for president regardless of his character, and embarrassing lack of understanding regarding economic and sociopolitical issues.  

It tells me that a lot of  Americans are blissfully happy to throw their vote to a pathological liar with the worst case of Dunning Kruger complex I have ever seen, so long as he shouts out all the right buzz words.  

It says to me that my country is full of LAZY thinkers.

I guess the only real issue here is why I should find any of the above at all surprising...

Blame it on the 'uneducated.' Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Because otherwise if you think about it, essentially what you are saying is 'educated' people all think a certain way that will yield a predictable result... in this case education would compel you to vote clinton

.

What I'm saying is many educated people are not as easily duped by instantly fact check-able lies. They also are less likely to be corralled in by fear-mongering and catastrophism.

Quote:Now what if said people, were educated in a place like china or russia? Where certain values and idealisms are preprogrammed in as a matter of course to obtain the title 'educated?' would they, having some of the finest educations russia or china had to offer, also vote clinton if given the oppertunity? According to my facebook feed, no.

Facebook feed? Nice reference, lol.

Quote:So then if all of our core studies are the same (Math, science ect..) is in agreement between our education systems what or why would an educated person of a russia or china vote differenly than an 'educated person here?

Because...Russia and China are not America? And you trying to generalize out like that is absurd. Lol

Quote:what if... what you can identify as 'propaganda/preprogramming' from their state.. is simply different from the preprogramming from out state funded universities and collages??

Do you wear a tinfoil hat to go along with that deep seeded paranoia? Yeah, yeah, we're all robots who are incapable of thinking for ourselves due to the powerful undercurrent of government propaganda. Except you, ofc. Cuz, bible. We've heard this argument ad nauseam from you, Dan. Try switching up the record for once, will ya?

Quote:Would then an education be such a prized possession? Is this state mandated propaganda the reason bernie wants to give away collage? So that the state can properly influence what is moral and what is not? To get everyone thinking the same way? To make a nation of socialist robots?

I'm a dietitian. Do you know how many times I've had to hear people assert that because the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics accepts funding from Coca-Cola and Nestle, that ALL dietitians are mindless robots who have been brainwashed by a corrupt, propaganda-fueled curriculum? It's an absurd oversimplification of a complex system. Does corruption happen within public policy? Yes, of course. Am I a mindless robot spewing the beverage industry's agenda? Of course not. Why, you ask? critical thinking skills. They apply in all aspects of life, believe it or not.

Quote:put a pin in that thought and follow me over to the evangelical vote. You may want to dismiss the evangelicals as all being backwards or uneducated, but in fact most are indeed educated, but not at state run universities. Do you think 'educated' evangelicals who hold a 4 year degree or greater voted for clinton?

.

Critical. Thinking. Skills. Which I did reference in my post, btw. So stop trying to say that I laid all of this on education alone.

Quote:Again if the core studies are all the same (as with the russian and cinese example I gave) Ask yourself what differs from a private/religious education and a state sponsored one? what makes the educated christian vote differently than what you identifies as an 'educated' person? Again, It's the state sponcered propaganda/morality that you have being 'educated by the state' that privately educated people who do not have.

Well, they are being "educated" on a non-intellectual subject like Christianity, for starters, lol.

Quote:Now, that we isolated or identified the catylist for a clinton vote or rather a 'progressive' vote what makes you think your propaganda is better/more righteous than russia's or china's social propaganda? or the social propaganda of the 1920s where the KKK ran rampant or better than the social (science based) propaganda of Hitler's germany?

Repeat after me: critical. Thinking. Skills.

Oh and, "science based" Hitler propaganda? LOL. Thank you, I needed that laugh. You realize we have the Internet at our disposal, right? Why would you even make such non-applicable comparison?

Quote:you only use the parameters of right and wrong defined in the rules of the propaganda itself to judge your social movement you will always be able to justify whatever evils society wants to do, and you will always beable to justify calling others who do not agree with you evil as well.

In truth, you are right... Not enough people were programmed to pull off a clinton win. Now if you can truly objectively look at yourself as you look at others, ask yourself is that a bad thing? Am I truly on the right side of this argument?

I'll never be on the side of prejudice, bigotry, sexual assault, and demoting "the other" down to second class citizenhood. Sorry. You don't need Clinton propaganda to realize this is exactly what Trump wants to do. All you need are ears to hear his own words. Oh, and critical thinking skills. Have I mentioned those?

(November 9, 2016 at 1:12 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Were do you live?  It's easy to empathize, it really is....alot of trump voters have it super shitty.  I know a trump voter who raised two wonderful kids, and lifetime spent in commision only sales sending them both to college.  He lives a tiny camper on a trailer court, now.  I know another that raised not only his own children, but his grandchildren...and his neighbors and friends children - and he;s still at it..providing for his great grandchildren even though he was diagnosed with a series of debilitating illnesses nearly twenty years ago (VA coverage is all that's keeping him going).  Things that would -force- other people to retire...he's still doing hard ass work in his 80's.  So many kids there weren't enough beds and couches combined, at times....working one job, 40 hours a week.  Now he works 60, and they couldn't survive, let alone continue to provide even though they have many, many fewer mouths to feed....if so much as a bad cough came on - or if he had to pay for insurance, or if he was replaced by a younger man at work.  Both of these men have fallen on hard times, but injury itself wasn't enough to break them...I'd never have expected either to vote for trump...now, though, they feel insulted, ignored, devalued, marginalized.  They think that other people who don;t work as hard, or who don;t hold to their idea of american ideals, are getting a better deal than they are.   It's a shitty combination, and a shitty situation to be in.  Then, good god, then....one party threw up a candidate that;s everything they -both- hate about government.  One was told he must be a sexist  bigot not to vote for her...the other that he must be a racist not to vote for her...... and you know what, they had both been told this about themselves time and time again long before this election.

The one is a sexist bigot, but in no way a -racist-.  The other is a racist, but in no way a sexist bigot.  I call them both dad.  I'm a rural american, to my core, -though admittedly I went to good schools in a big city- which sort of makes me sound like a defacto liberal in the eyes of yall...and my rural compatriots...lol..whose heard all the same things and more from the same damned party, and the same damned voters...because I live in the woods, hurr durr.  Yall don't need me anymore, I'm what's wrong with america, and my every political opinion makes me an enemy of women, children, and minorities.  When I try to solve a problem outside of party lines....I'm suddenly part of the problem..and I mean this right down to what I do for a living, lol.  There's a fund in this state for women that do what I do.  For minorities that do what I do.  For immigrants that do what I do.  I'm not eligible (my wife and I joke about reforming our llc with her at the top just to game the system), and that money, largely, doesn't get handed out or keeps getting handed out to the usual suspects who..in many cases, don't need it and have never needed it.  

It shouldn't be hard to empathize..even if you don't agree.  It just might be that the only reason I didn't lose my godamned mind and vote Trump is because I haven't had to feel, truly feel, the loss in status or station that they have.  I'm doing well, and can, to a much larger degree, escape the criticism levied at all three of us, often enough in ignorance.....though, I;m not blowing smoke up anyone ass on this election.  Buncha racist, sexist bigots.....elected Trump..but also, I'd have to allow, people -like me- who aren't doing as well as I have been, often... because they just so happen to be in the demographic of the racists, and the sexists, and the bigots.

sounds like "White privilege" to me.
 

(November 9, 2016 at 1:12 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(November 9, 2016 at 7:08 am)Alex K Wrote: I will never accept Trump as my President!

...and I will never accept Hillary as my president! Oh, I don't have to. SHE LOST!

You hear strange things all the time, apparently....so?

(November 9, 2016 at 1:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Just one more thing Hillary and I don't agree on.  We don't owe that man a fucking thing, ofc an oligarch would think we did.  I'm sure that Trump expects to be able to cash a check at some point as well.   

actually trump said he would not be taking the presidential salary.

(November 9, 2016 at 5:20 pm)Cecelia Wrote: When was America ever great?  The 1920's?  Back when women couldn't vote, and when blacks were oppressed?  America has been progressing.  If we weren't great the last 8 years--then we've never BEEN great.  We live in a country where a misogynistic xenophobic racist asshole was voted in.  So apparently the 1920's is exactly the era you want to go back to.  Not me.

You are confusing the word great with the word utopia.

We do not have to live in a perfect nation in order for it to be great.

Great refers to the time when the US had strong socioeconomic strength coupled with strong global influence back by a strong leader who made deals that benefited America first.

(November 10, 2016 at 11:57 am)Drich Wrote: Great refers to the time when the US had strong socioeconomic strength coupled with strong global influence back by a strong leader who made deals that benefited America first.

Yeah, that's not going to happen under Trump. He'll just hasten the decline.

(November 9, 2016 at 5:34 pm)Aroura Wrote: This why we Grieve.


I don’t think you understand us right now.

I think you think this is about politics.

I think you believe this is all just sour grapes; the crocodile tears of the losing locker room with the scoreboard going against us at the buzzer.

I can only tell you that you’re wrong. This is not about losing an election. This isn’t about not winning a contest. This is about two very different ways of seeing the world.

Hillary supporters believe in a diverse America; one where religion or skin color or sexual orientation or place of birth aren’t liabilities or deficiencies or moral defects. Her campaign was one of inclusion and connection and interdependency. It was about building bridges and breaking ceilings. It was about going high.

Trump supporters believe in a very selective America; one that is largely white and straight and Christian, and the voting verified this. Donald Trump has never made any assertions otherwise. He ran a campaign of fear and exclusion and isolation—and that’s the vision of the world those who voted for him have endorsed.

They have aligned with the wall-builder and the professed p*ssy-grabber, and they have co-signed his body of work, regardless of the reasons they give for their vote:

Every horrible thing Donald Trump ever said about women or Muslims or people of color has now been validated.
Every profanity-laced press conference and every call to bully protestors and every ignorant diatribe has been endorsed.
Every piece of anti-LGBTQ legislation Mike Pence has championed has been signed-off on.

Half of our country has declared these things acceptable, noble, American.

This is the disconnect and the source of our grief today. It isn’t a political defeat that we’re lamenting, it’s a defeat for Humanity.

We’re not angry that our candidate lost. We’re angry because our candidate’s losing means this country will be less safe, less kind, and less available to a huge segment of its population, and that’s just the truth.

Those who have always felt vulnerable are now left more so. Those whose voices have been silenced will be further quieted. Those who always felt marginalized will be pushed further to the periphery. Those who feared they were seen as inferior now have confirmation in actual percentages.

Those things have essentially been campaign promises of Donald Trump, and so many of our fellow citizens have said this is what they want too.  

This has never been about politics.
This is not about one candidate over the other.
It’s not about one’s ideas over another’s.
It is not blue vs. red.
It’s not her emails vs. his bad language.
It’s not her dishonesty vs. his indecency.

It’s about overt racism and hostility toward minorities.
It’s about religion being weaponized.
It’s about crassness and vulgarity and disregard for women.
It’s about a barricaded, militarized, bully nation.
It’s about an unapologetic, open-faced ugliness.

And it is not only that these things have been ratified by our nation that grieve us; all this hatred, fear, racism, bigotry, and intolerance—it’s knowing that these things have been amen-ed by our neighbors, our families, our friends, those we work with and worship alongside. That is the most horrific thing of all. We now know how close this is.

It feels like living in enemy territory being here now, and there’s no way around that. We wake up today in a home we no longer recognize. We are grieving the loss of a place we used to love but no longer do. This may be America today but it is not the America we believe in or recognize or want.

This is not about a difference of political opinion, as that’s far too small to mourn over. It’s about a fundamental difference in how we view the worth of all people—not just those who look or talk or think or vote the way we do.

Grief always laments what might have been, the future we were robbed of, the tomorrow that we won’t get to see, and that is what we walk through today. As a nation we had an opportunity to affirm the beauty of our diversity this day, to choose ideas over sound bytes, to let everyone know they had a place at the table, to be the beacon of goodness and decency we imagine that we are—and we said no.

And this is why we grieve.
Original Blog

I'm literally crying on and off since last night.  I've ever experienced this before.  I'm not afraid.  I'm white, I'm straight, I'm getting older, my husband has skills that are highly desired in the workplace.  I'll probably be ok. 

I'm crying because I feel like this nation embraced it's darkest side. I'm crying because I hear about people who will now lose their healthcare that they wait so long for, and for the children and grandchildren who will grow up poorer, less educated and more defined by their race, gender and ethnicity than I once had hoped for.  I cry because we've rejected our brothers and sisters, and even the planet itself.

Not every Trump voter is bad, I'm not saying that, but by electing him, we've given a thumbs up to the very, very worst of ourselves.

I had this very discussion last night, where i outlined more or less what you said here..

In that
Clinton repersents EVERYTHING WRONG with politics, and Trump repersents Everything wrong with soceity. Those who voted again trump were voting to secure their version of soceity/what makes them feel good. In essence A hilary vote was a vote for social morality/pop morality.

Here's the thing:

We did that 4 years ago and again 8 years ago. Things got worse. Why? because the rest of America can see that we do not need a quasi social/moral prophet right now we need a political leader. Not a politician but someone who will lead us out of the vow of poverty your social leaders must be willing to take for this country.

In otherwords mainstream America is telling you moral nut jobs keep your 'pop moral' BS to your self for a while, or at least till we can make some money back to pay for some of the 'moral crap' that is killing this country.

(November 10, 2016 at 11:47 am)Drich Wrote:

(November 9, 2016 at 1:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Just one more thing Hillary and I don't agree on.  We don't owe that man a fucking thing, ofc an oligarch would think we did.  I'm sure that Trump expects to be able to cash a check at some point as well.   

actually trump said he would not be taking the presidential salary.

Yeah, because it's the salary that presidents cash in on, when they want to make real coin.....lol, that -must be- what I'm talking about.



It's as if you think the mans been elected to sainthood, lol. You hear that and imagine that it's some sort of positive principled stand...I see it for what it is. He told us that we could keep the chumpchange, after all...he knows where the real money in the office is at...doesn't he? Or is he as naive as you pretend to be?

I see, above, that you can make just about anything out to be an issue of your particular obsession. I guess that's what it means, though, to be obsessed.