(November 15, 2016 at 10:39 am)Crossless1 Wrote: The thing SJWs don't seem to get is that the sort of change they wish to effect does not and will not come around by braying in the streets and demonizing everyone who isn't immediately on board with their agendas. Look at what happened in the case of gay marriage. This wasn't directly the result of street protests but came about with a sea change in public attitudes when a significant number of straight people realized that they had loved ones, neighbors, and colleagues for whom this was an important issue. The battle was won in the courts, but the ground had been prepared in countless living rooms and dining room tables throughout the country.

I completely agree that the Democratic party, which used to be the bread-and-butter issues party, has become unmoored. Today they are the party of corporate and banking concerns that dabbles in identity politics to shore up their 'progressive' bona fides. The only real difference between them and the Republicans seems to be which group of intolerant jerks they pander to at election time. PC intolerance is just as obnoxious and poisonous, in my opinion, as right-wing intolerance.

Sadly, I don't know what can be done about the marginalized workers in the rust belt. That horse left the barn a long time ago, and both parties are to blame.

The difference between demand and earn respect?

The following was posted in December 2012. It shows that this narrative that liberals are accusatory reactionaries predates this election by a large margin. I suspect it is just that, a narrative, invented by the right for self-serving ends. In short, I think we're being conned.

(December 10, 2012 at 3:04 pm)A Theist Wrote: Any disagreement with the Left results in a shrill tirade of name calling and finger pointing....the leftwing hypocrites claim to champion free speech, but at the same time they try to shut down any speech they disagree with.

Quote:"This scene is a microcosm of how liberals seek to silence the opposition by censorship and leveling personal attacks while avoiding the issues at hand. It further elucidates their ignorance of the issues, their bad habits of changing the subject during the debate, and their wild self-constructed fantasies of the world at large. Liberalism is a mental disorder."

.....

(November 15, 2016 at 11:00 am)alpha male Wrote:

(November 15, 2016 at 10:30 am)vorlon13 Wrote: I can't believe with her political savvy and high intelligence, anything could have destroyed her candidacy other than her internal baseline motivations for the presidency never hitting that 110% level 'real' winners who want to win and do win display while they are winning their win winningly.

She didn't want it bad enough and fucked it and the rest of us.  It was ALWAYS hers to lose, and she did.

Maybe she wanted it, but the alt right was on to something regarding health/alcohol abuse issues.

Doesn't even have to be that.
 
She just wants to be grandma to Chelsea's kid.


And, LOL, being honest with the voters about that desire might have still pulled a victory 11/8 out of Anthony Weiner's throbbing penis.


Hillary is blaming Comey for the last minute disruption thing, but Jesus Fucking Christ, last week of the run up to the election and the country gets reminded of Anthony Weiner, damn, that is far worse than Comey. 

Comey had his clothes on.

Divinity Wrote:Ahh yes, the poor 'white male' oppressed much like the Christians in this nation.  It's not fair that Hillary focused on college kids--never mind that our college kids are in debt up to their throats (many of whom are white males btw) .  Hillary should focus on white male issues more, becuase they're the majority like it or not!   "This is a Christian Nation!"  That's what it sounds like.  I mean give me a fucking break.  This is so fucking stupid.  All the Republicans give a damn about is 'what about me?  What about mine?"  Shit,  You think a President is going to bring back your jobs, then you're an idiot.

Manufacturing isn't coming back.  Coal is naturally dying.  And it'd be fucking stupid to think otherwise.  I'm sure it's nice for the idiots to hear.  They want to think someone is going to chase away all the mean brown people who are 'taking their jobs'.  Because they're the majority dammit!  Oh yeah, and Coal is bad for our environment. Only the complete morons think otherwise.  But they don't give a fuck about none of that--who cares if Florida is underwater in 100 years?  These fuckers won't live to see it so it's cool with them!  World's ending anyway according to the Jesus freaks.

Hillary didn't lose because she didn't focus on 'white males' enough.  She lost because FBI Director Comey made a political move, and because the DNC was brazenly stupid to show bias to a candidate that was going to win without their help.

Is economic decline for the working class in the Rust Belt really a white male issue, just because white people are the majority there? I would have thought it's a poor working class issue.

It seems to be really important to many Democrats to avoid addressing these economic concerns, to the point that they'd rather try to get a Constitutional Amendment to abolish the Electoral College so they can ignore those parts of the country with more impunity going forward.

Apparently it's now acceptable to insult the poor. If Hillary really cared about non-whites then one thing she can do is to stop being such a warmonger and call for and end to drone strikes. Drone strikes kill the "families of terrorists" all the time but people are only outraged when a Republican calls for the bombing of innocent civilians apparently.

And here's another shocking fact which I was unaware of until recently: Obama deported more brown people than any other president. I think the figure is over 2.5 million deportations now. Donald is going to find it tough to beat the current Deporter in Chief, Obama. And people let Obama get away with it because he's a Democrat.

Economist article from 2014:
Barack Obama, deporter-in-chief

Quote:America is expelling illegal immigrants at nine times the rate of 20 years ago (see article); nearly 2m so far under Barack Obama, easily outpacing any previous president.

Two million people deported in six years. Can Donald Trump (hopefully a one term president) hope to beat that? Obama set a tough record to beat,

Politico, also 2014
NCLR head: Obama 'deporter-in-chief'

Quote:It’s not the first time NCLR has crossed Obama on deportations — though Murguía’s remarks do mark the first time NCLR’s leadership has done so in such a direct and public manner. Obama was heckled by a large portion of the crowd during a June 2011 speech to NCLR — protesters chanted “yes you can” at him to send a message that he should halt deportations.

...

Murguía said the White House deportation policy began as an effort to win credibility among Republicans but has careened out of control. She said Obama sought to deport more people than had President George W. Bush to get Republicans to cooperate on a larger immigration reform bill — a strategy that has not worked in the House.

But, of course, the Democrats care about minorities and look after the people of the world. Hilary Bots only care about people in America. Can somebody please tell me what Hilary's, lets say top five, foreign policy achievements are a secretary of state? Is the world safer or less safe now that Hilary has been secretary of state? I wish we had a Libyan on the forum who could tell us just how terrible Hilary has treated their country.

(November 15, 2016 at 1:07 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: It seems to be really important to many Democrats to avoid addressing these economic concerns, to the point that they'd rather try to get a Constitutional Amendment to abolish the Electoral College so they can ignore those parts of the country with more impunity going forward.

Since when is Green Jobs ignoring the issue?  But Trump, selling his invisible unicorn, said that would kill Coal jobs!  And it's about damn time Coal is killed.  It's dying anyway.  Might as well replace it with jobs that are sustainable.  Like... oh, I don't know, Green Jobs.  But no, let's keep coal alive a little longer.  Put it on life support, so that the people working in those jobs now can have some temporary reassurance--all at the cost of the future (in more ways than one)

And yes, it's time to abolish the Electoral College.  The house of representatives are already set up so that states have a voice.  Presidential Candidates only give a fuck about swing states.  Why try to gain votes as a Democrat in the state of Texas?  Why try to gain votes as a Republican in the state of New York?  For as much as a President is supposed to represent everyone, they fucking don't.

(November 15, 2016 at 1:32 pm)ReptilianPeon Wrote: And here's another shocking fact which I was unaware of until recently: Obama deported more brown people than any other president. I think the figure is over 2.5 million deportations now. Donald is going to find it tough to beat the current Deportrt in Chief Obama. And people let Obama get away with it because he's a Democrat.

Define "deportation" because that definition has changed.  Those who are turned away at the border are considered 'deported' under the current definition. 

BTW: Nice narrative, but you ignore the fact that people making under $50k/year voted Hillary over Trump.  It was wealthy voters who gave Trump the election.

If they did they fucked themselves but good.  Wait until they see what Drumpf's nazi pals pull.

Obama is doing the work of Donald Trump, including, no doubt, deporting people from Honduras. Hilary turned Honduras into a shithole by encouraging a coup there (Hillary's foreign policy experience showing again!) and Obama expects the immigrants to go back there.

Democracy Now:
Hear Hillary Clinton Defend Her Role in Honduras Coup When Questioned by Juan González

Quote:"Earlier this week, the former secretary of state publicly defended her role in the 2009 coup in Honduras, when the military seized democratically elected President Manuel Zelaya in the middle of the night, deposed him and sent him into exile.  Since the coup, Honduras has become one of the most violent places in the world. Clinton was asked about Honduras during a meeting with the New York Daily News editorial board on Saturday. The question was posed by Democracy Now!’s Juan González."

So it's fine when Hilary interferes with the politics in other countries but when the Russians supposedly support Donald Trump there is outrage. Doesn't that make Hilary a massive hypocrite?

(November 15, 2016 at 1:32 pm)ReptilianPeon Wrote: And here's another shocking fact which I was unaware of until recently: Obama deported more brown people than any other president. I think the figure is over 2.5 million deportations now. Donald is going to find it tough to beat the current Deporter in Chief, Obama. And people let Obama get away with it because he's a Democrat.

Economist article from 2014:
Barack Obama, deporter-in-chief

Quote:America is expelling illegal immigrants at nine times the rate of 20 years ago (see article); nearly 2m so far under Barack Obama, easily outpacing any previous president.

Not exactly.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obam...story.html

Quote:The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now.

The shift in who gets tallied helped the administration look tough in its early years but now may be backfiring politically. Immigration advocates plan protests across the country this week around what they say will be the 2 millionth deportation under Obama — a mark expected to be hit in the next few days. And Democratic strategists fret about a decline in Latino voter turnout for this fall's election.

Until recent years, most people caught illegally crossing the southern border were simply bused back into Mexico in what officials called "voluntary returns," but which critics derisively termed "catch and release." Those removals, which during the 1990s reached more 1 million a year, were not counted in Immigration and Customs Enforcement's deportation statistics.

Now, the vast majority of border crossers who are apprehended get fingerprinted and formally deported. The change began during the George W. Bush administration and accelerated under Obama. The policy stemmed in part from a desire to ensure that people who had crossed into the country illegally would have formal charges on their records.

In the Obama years, all of the increase in deportations has involved people picked up within 100 miles of the border, most of whom have just recently crossed over. In 2013, almost two-thirds of deportations were in that category.