(November 16, 2016 at 4:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 16, 2016 at 3:55 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: No argument here.

Some people here are saying no one should be deported at all unless they committed a crime (as in, a crime other than coming/being here illegally). Meaning as long as someone can get here, they should be allowed to stay if they are not found to be criminals.  

That is where I disagree.

Okay. Take it up with them.

(November 16, 2016 at 4:34 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 16, 2016 at 4:04 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I take you for your word as well Cath.  You're not a racist.  

What's clear from your questions and objections, however, is that you've been steeped in the racists narrative which does exist and -is- the narrative of the debate on the issue, in this country..  

You thought, for example, that a problem with illegals might be their failure to "integrate" - which you defined as being willing to work and follow our laws.  Lazy criminals.  Well, they do work, they do follow our laws.  Good god, things would be awfully shitty for them if they didn't, shittier than for you and I.  The last thing they need is to be penniless and pulled over for a tail light being out.  

You thought, for example, that a problem with illegals might be that we ought to take care of our own first.  The takers narrative.  Well, we do take care of our own, the illegals aren't eligible, even though they contribute immensely.

You think that allowing more immigrants or making the process easier, or not deporting illegals makes regulating our borders irrelevant, pointless.  Fortress america, but, apparently the only reason for the border is keeping mexicans out.

Who do you think sold you these narratives...each one of them wholly untrue but, for some reason, compelling to you?  Did you imagine all of this factually untrue shit on your own?  When, how?  Just sitting there, thinking about things?  Where did you get these ideas from?  Forgive me for proposing that had you actually done some research on this, yourself...being a non racist and decent human being....you just -might- have approached this whole issue from an entirely different context.  Am I allowed to make that generous assumption?

Dude, seriously??? I've explained myself over and over and over again and you're still throwing the "racism" card at me??? Your assessment, accusations, and assumptions of me are completely wrong. Which is frustrating bc I have explained them a million times, and you're still giving a complete opposite representation of what I actually think. I have 0 problem ignoring your posts, but what bothers me is you're giving the other members here who may not have read the whole thread a completely wrong representation of me and of what my views actually are.

I don't think he's throwing the racism card at you, yourself. I think he's saying that many of those who construct the arguments about immigration have racism as their basis.

(November 16, 2016 at 4:59 pm)Drich Wrote:

(November 16, 2016 at 4:38 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: got carried away and said some things i shouldnt have. deleted.

Now you know why I set them on fire and watch them burn from time to time.

You couldn't fire up gasoline with a blowtorch, kid. Quit your autofellatio.

(November 16, 2016 at 6:07 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: It is solely the fault of illegal immigrants when their US citizen children do not receive the benefits of their citizenship as a result of their (the parents) not being legal residents. No one forced foreign nationals to enter the US illegally. No one forced them to have children in the US. Having made those choices, it is not fair for those same foreign nationals to now expect the taxpayers of the country, the country they shouldn’t even be in, to shoulder the burden of raising their children.

[...]

I do not think it is unreasonable to expect parents to at least partially step-up to the plate for the benefit of their children by having gainful and legal employment.

Those parents, if they're working here, are almost surely working and paying taxes. You keep trying to push this "lazy" narrative, and this "nontaxpaying" narrative -- but illegals, millions of them, work at legal jobs, paying income taxes for benefits they cannot collect. Even if they only rent, they still pay property tax, because their landlord factors that into his rental fees.

What we're seeing here is your unsupported assumptions.

Fascists hate facts the way vampires hate sunlight, Thump.

IF they ever chased all the migrants out of Arizona all these old white fucks would have no one to wipe their skinny asses in the nursing homes.

If I may just ask a question, to clarify for my own benefit, in the US do illegal immigrants generally pay income/payroll taxes if they are employed? Just a bit confused as in the UK people here illegally tend to be off the radar in terms of income taxes e.g. they aren't 'officially' here so don't pay anything.

BTW I am aware that in the UK they still contribute through sales taxes (VAT), council taxes etc.

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Depends on the employer, but yeah, illegals account for billions in payroll taxes.  They may be shadow people, but their employers aren't, so federal and state comes out to keep the employers in the clear. As far as income tax.....they wouldn't owe any, plugging them into that system would only be plugging them into stimulus and rebates. They live in poverty.

In the time that Trump, who rails against illegals, has been -avoiding- taxes like the plague, illegals have easily contributed one or two hundred billion, USD. Maybe we should deport him?

(November 17, 2016 at 7:06 am)Rhythm Wrote: Depends on the employer, but yeah, illegals account for billions in payroll taxes.  They may be shadow people, but their employers aren't, so federal and state comes out to keep the employers in the clear. As far as income tax.....they wouldn't owe any, plugging them into that system would only be plugging them into stimulus and rebates. They live in poverty.

In the time that Trump, who rails against illegals, has been -avoiding- taxes like the plague, illegals have easily contributed one or two hundred billion, USD. Maybe we should deport him?

Thanks Rhythm.

Done a bit of digging around and come across this article:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...ts-113-bi/

And this report:

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/41645

TLR version, illegal immigration comes at a 'modest' net cost, the largest expense being education.

My math using a mean estimate from the GAO report referred to in the article ($19bn) vs the population of the US, rounded down 300m to knock out the illegals, means a cost per 'legal' resident of less than $65 per year, the largest proportion of which goes on education.

It would cost $400 - $600 bn over 20 years to find and deport all illegal immigrants according to this article:

http://www.newfreethinkers.org/illegal_i...sheet_2015

Using the low end of this it works out to an average of over $65 per legal resident per year, actually more than it costs for the illegal immigrants to stay in the US.

Lets call it even though.

Would you rather your tax dollars were spent providing the very basic needs of illegal immigrants, or deporting them?

(November 17, 2016 at 9:20 am)ukatheist Wrote: TLR version, illegal immigration comes at a 'modest' net cost, the largest expense being education.

Children born here to illegals aren't illegals.  They're citizens.  The largest expense is the expense of educating -citizens-.  You'll have to redo the math, lol.

Quote:Would you rather your tax dollars were spent providing the very basic needs of illegal immigrants, or deporting them?

Why are we even discussing this, in this context?  Illegals provide for their own basic needs.  If they want to avail themselves of foodstamps, for example..then they'd need to apply for citizenship. If they want social security, they need an ss number.....and again, they'll need to apply for citizenship to get that.

(November 16, 2016 at 10:15 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(November 16, 2016 at 4:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Some people here are saying no one should be deported at all unless they committed a crime (as in, a crime other than coming/being here illegally). Meaning as long as someone can get here, they should be allowed to stay if they are not found to be criminals.  

That is where I disagree.

Okay. Take it up with them.

I was, Thump. I only responded to you because you commented on my post, so I was explaining to you what was going on and where I stood.