They liked the racism more than they liked hillary.  That's pretty fuckin racist.  There's no wiggling out of it.  

There may have been, if Trump was a dog whistle blower, or a clever speaker who could legitimately mask the racist ideology and vision of america being espoused.  He was neither.  He let it all hang out, and no one's  "portraying" him as what he is or his campaign for what it was...just observing.  

The amount of ball twisting denial that goes into this is like a fine wine, to me.  I've been watching people hit that uncomfortable "what's racist about that?" moment for my entire life.  It goes one of two ways, from there.  Either a person suddenly realizes that they've been a racist dick -perhaps, even, being generous, an unintentionally racist dick-, or they rationalize away their discomfort and continue to be a dick.  A racist....dick.

Kosh Wrote:Unemployment is low, yet they lack the skills nor the will to achieve the skills needed to get a better paying job.  They want their coal mining, street sweeping, snow plowing, assembly line, and foundry jobs back.

Unemployment is low in the Rust Belt?

(November 17, 2016 at 7:35 am)Jehanne Wrote: ...by 39 points!!!

http://www.electoral-vote.com/#item-1

Incredible!  But, as the article states, Trump's victory may turn out to be the best thing for the progressive cause, assuming, of course, that the SCOTUS judges can live on (and on and on!)

It is interesting that the average total schooling of the "white working men" has increased by less than 8 month between 1974 and now.    During the same period the Gerald schooling of the 'average working men' in most of the developed and developing world went up by several years. The average 'white working men" of the US enjoyed several years more schooling than the working men of any other country in 1945. By 1975 Germany and Japan's average working men has caught up and now surpasses 'White working men". Now the average working men in coastal china has caught up and surpassed them.

The sort of "work" tend to be done by the white "working" man is generally the sort that would become increasingly less important, and also the sort in which the US suffers from an increasingly large, and essentially irremediable, structural disadvantage.

To cater to the desire of white working man to continue to be paid well without being spanked hard and forced becoming something other, and more accurately and precisely, far better educated and far better, than the "white working man", is to mortgage the future of both this country, and of the selfsame "white working man".

The victory of trump is therefore the victory in the battle to position the US even less well in the world in 25 or 50 years.

(November 18, 2016 at 9:58 am)Rhythm Wrote: Plenty of the current crop of geriatrics were hippies once.  One of my trump voting family members was. Getting old has an effect on people, lol.

Oh, I'm sure some of them grew up to be assholes. But, I don't think anywhere close to a majority of young people in those days considered themselves the "make love--not war" stereotypical hippies we are talking about. I'm sure there were plenty of Niedermeyers.

Rhythm Wrote:As if pushing bigots and racists away were a bad thing.  I'd push them right into the sea.  Then we'd have -plenty- of room for all of the people they hate so goddamned much.

There's some science on how to reach bigots and get them to oppose legislation that is discriminatory. It's pretty much the opposite of your suggestion. But at least yours has the advantage of being an impossible fantasy and lets you vent your spleen while accomplishing nothing.

Faith No More Wrote:

Catholic_Lady Wrote:I think it may or may not be, personally. The protesting and accusation of them all being racist bigots isn't really helping the cause and will only continue to push these people further away. But on the other hand, Trump might be SO bad, that it forces people to the opposite side anyway. 

I guess we will see. All we can do now is hope for the best for this country. 

Here's a thought.  If people don't want to be called bigots, maybe they shouldn't hitch their wagon to bigots.

Sure, not everyone that voted Trump did so for racial reasons, but they had no problem overlooking facts like Trump calling for a national registry of Muslims much like the Nazis did to the Jews.  It's racism by proxy at best.  You lie with dogs, you get fleas.

If they feel pushed away by hearing the truth, that shouldn't stop us from pointing it out.

You sound like you think they need YOUR vote. They don't.

(November 18, 2016 at 10:58 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: There's some science on how to reach bigots and get them to oppose legislation that is discriminatory. It's pretty much the opposite of your suggestion. But at least yours has the advantage of being an impossible fantasy and lets you vent your spleen while accomplishing nothing.

Right, shame on me.  

I'm tired of their shit.  They keep pretending not to see their shit, so I'll help them notice their shit.  It's bigot chicken, a game with which I'm intimately familiar. I'm not interested in pandering to them or tricking them into opposing legislation that aligns with their bigoted ideals, lol. You do it your way, I'll do it my way, we'll have them by the head and the tail.

Faith No More Wrote:

Drich Wrote:what don't you understand about being intolerant of those in whom you deem 'intolerant' makes you JUST LIKE THEM?

So you need to make room for yourself in the push to the ocean!

Right!  If we don't tolerate neo-Nazis, it makes us just as bad as them!

#NazisArePeopleToo

If you don't tolerate the people who voted for Obama in 2012 but didn't vote for Clinton in 2016, they'll stay with the people who DO tolerate them.

Rhythm Wrote:No one has to assume anything about a Trump voter.  They voted trump.  Whatever it is they rationalize their vote for, they still voted trump, who openly campaigned on bigotry and racism.  Whatever they wanted to get that was part of his campaign not related to that, or whatever they wanted to  avoid (say, some hillary)...the bigotry and racism was an acceptable trade off for it.

That's pretty damned bigoted, well and truly fucking racist.

Once upon a time, I hoped the GOP would learn from its mistakes, take its famous 2012 'post-mortem' to heart and become more inclusive. But it quickly became apparent that they'd rather double down, that the majority felt that the reason they lost was because they weren't Tea Party enough.

I see the Democrats following a mirror image of that path today.

As do I, although I think we might be talking about entirely disparate things.  The limp wristed unwillingness to stand up, loudly an vociferously, for what is supposed to be a core principle. Preferring, instead, to pander and allow hemselves to be pulled towards that opposition viewpoint. Bigots love to be able to be bigots without being called bigots on account of it. That;s all that they need, in truth, to keep being bigots and doing bigoted things. The polite and silent complicity of non-bigots. Genteel racism.

Not my problem, ofc, since I'm not a dem anyway.