Hi, I am an agnostic theist that is looking to get a better understanding of atheists. Where I live there are very few atheists, but I assume there to be some closeted atheists. Anyways the few atheists I have had conversations with would be the kind of people that you guys would probably say give atheism a bad name. Their favorite way to start a conversation about beliefs usually begins with “you really believe in a mystical being in the sky”. They have no problem in proudly proclaiming that the TOE proves atheism to be the truth. I know all atheists are not like this and that is why I’m here. I’m looking for some educated atheists/agnostics to answer a few of my questions so I can get a better idea of your side. If you could answer some of these questions for me I would greatly appreciate it. I have always wondered why some people end up as theists and some as atheists.

Environment:
1. What is the predominate belief of your family and friends?
Ex- my family consists of mainly atheists while my friends tend to be mainly theists.
2. What is your general location? (If U.S. please use northwest, northeast, etc.)
3. Have you changed your beliefs in the past?
Ex- I used to be a theist then I became an atheist at age 15.
4. What is your highest level of education?

Cosmology/Physics:
5. Many people have argued that the “big bang” implies a finite universe. Some people (myself included) believe that a finite universe tends to have more theistic leanings. How would you respond to this?
Ex- I believe that we are one of many universes.
Ex- I do not believe in the “big bang”.
6. If you have not already answered above- do you believe in a finite or eternal universe?
7. How would you respond to the fine tuning argument?

Biology:
8. Do you believe in IDT (Intelligent Design Theory), TOE (Theory of Evolution), or other? (Seems like a weird question but there are some atheists that believe that we were designed by aliens)
Ex- I believe in neo- Darwinism.
9. Based on the question above, what would you say are the general points that back up your belief in this?
Ex- Fossil record, embryology, etc.
10. How does a belief in [response above] relate to an atheist/agnostic belief?
Ex- If our origins can be explained in a naturalistic way then I believe the origins of the universe can be explained in a naturalistic way too.
Ex- My belief in [response above] is not related to my atheist/ agnostic beliefs.

Other:
11. Do you believe that morals are relative/preference? Please Explain
12. Is your belief partly due to something that you may not be able to explain to others?
Ex- I have had numerous events occur in my life that are partly responsible for my belief.
Ex- I don’t know how to explain it. It seems almost as if it’s instinct… it just seems right to me.

Again I’m not trying to be nosy. I just want to get a better understanding of beliefs that run quite contradictive to mine. Please don’t attack my belief; I respect your beliefs and I hope that you respect mine. If you have any questions for me then feel free to ask. Thanks for taking the time to help me with some of my questions. If you would like me to elaborate on any of the Q's please respond accordingly. If this is in the wrong section I am very sorry.

That's quite odd, because where I live there are very few theists

What does TOE mean, apart from a digit on your foot of course

Oh, and welcome along....

(June 13, 2011 at 3:12 pm)Darwinian Wrote: That's quite odd, because where I live there are very few theists

What does TOE mean, apart from a digit on your foot of course

Oh, and welcome along....

Sorry I didn't explain myself very well. TOE- Theory of Evolution. IDT- Intelligent Design Theory. I'll fix my post above.

Hello sir.
I doubt I would take the time to answer all this if I wasn't trying to waste sometime, but here I go:

My family are kind of half theist and half atheist (partly my doing).
I live in Scotland and I have always been an atheist.
And in terms of education, I took it upon myself to learn as I felt that relying on others was a bad idea... considering my philosophy tutor was a theist. So I do not actually have a very high official education level but with the level I tend to debate with my friends I am of equal or perhaps higher intelligence (I am aware of how condescending that sounds but all I do when i am not drinking is read), I learn better at my own hand.

As for the rest regarding the big bang, evolution and things like the fossil record, to deny the evidence for these things and to accept ID...well, I would call that horse shit.

Thanks for your honesty. I realize that it is a lot of questions to expect someone to answer.

I realised i rushed the last section, but I am getting ready to go out and writing on here at the same time...so reducing it to horse shit seemed reasonable.
I just have too much of a love for evolution and the natural universe to see otherwise.... I suppose one would say I am blinded by truth.

Well I might as well add my bit. Couldn't be fucked to go through every question.

* Ok, my family are atheists, virtually all of them. Only the rare few actually believe in a god.
* I live in England, United Kingdom.
* I have always been an atheist, despite a couple of schools and churches attempts to sway me over to religion.
* Highest education? Collage. Saw no reason to go further. My career goal didn't require any collage or university education.
* I'm with the widely accepted scientific fact of evolution. Due to it's enormous amounts of supporting evidence.

Sorry about skipping a few questions. I just don't have the patients old chap.

Quote:I respect your beliefs and I hope that you respect mine.

No problem there. Everyone is entitled to a point of view.
I don't actually have any beliefs. None that I know of anyway. I guess you can say total lack of belief.

Many of the people in my family have differing religion's and their beliefs are mainly because they live below the poverty line. Which doe's make their beliefs in a god understandable, after all it's just wishfull thinking. I am the only athiest I know of in my area and family.

"I'm all alone, there's no one else, who understand's me!"

Thanks everyone for your time. It's interesting to hear the viewpoints of people from other countries; it sounds like it's quite a bit different here in the states.

"Many of the people in my family have differing religion's and their beliefs are mainly because they live below the poverty line. Which doe's make their beliefs in a god understandable, after all it's just wishfull thinking. I am the only athiest I know of in my area and family."

That's very interesting... in my area it's backwards. There seems to be a trend in my area that the more money you have the more likely you are to be a theist. I realize that this trend in kind of rare and is not usually the case. Typically the theist families put enormous pressure on their kids to be successful as they were. So the kids are expected to get high paying jobs so they can support a family.

BTW anyone want to try Q's 5-11. It seems that most are giving me information about their environment without answering why they believe what they do (or lack of belief). Thanks so much everyone it's really nice to talk with a lot of rational atheists.

[quote='duck101' pid='145215' dateline='1307991710']
Q's from a theist
Hi, I am an agnostic theist that is looking to get a better understanding of atheists. Where I live there are very few atheists, but I assume there to be some closeted atheists. Anyways the few atheists I have had conversations with would be the kind of people that you guys would probably say give atheism a bad name. Their favorite way to start a conversation about beliefs usually begins with “you really believe in a mystical being in the sky”. They have no problem in proudly proclaiming that the TOE proves atheism to be the truth. I know all atheists are not like this and that is why I’m here. I’m looking for some educated atheists/agnostics to answer a few of my questions so I can get a better idea of your side. If you could answer some of these questions for me I would greatly appreciate it. I have always wondered why some people end up as theists and some as atheists.

Environment:
1. What is the predominate belief of your family and friends?

A. I come from a mixed family of beliefs, my Mum was raised catholic and my Dad protestant, i'm christened protestant also, as the time of my birth (1975) in the northwest of england, demanded it because of local attitudes of the time.

2. What is your general location? (If U.S. please use northwest, northeast, etc.)

A. See above.

3. Have you changed your beliefs in the past?

A. I didn't have any to change.

4. What is your highest level of education?

A. G.C.S.E passes in English, Geology, Geography, Modular Sciences (combined course work(s) of Chemistry, Biology, Physics etc). Astronomy in college at age 17 (dropped out as it seemed to be astronomy for absolute idiot beginners), back to college in my late 20s to do sound engineering and production and an introductary counselling course with a view to working with kids at risk or living with drug and /or alcohol/sexual and violent abuse.

Cosmology/Physics:
5. Many people have argued that the “big bang” implies a finite universe. Some people (myself included) believe that a finite universe tends to have more theistic leanings. How would you respond to this?
Ex- I believe that we are one of many universes.
Ex- I do not believe in the “big bang”.

A. Whether there was a "bang" or not is really open for debate. If you do some basic research you'll find that, It (the visible universe) is expanding from a single point, fact. If it banged, mearly appeared neatly from some other state and then expanded, came from membranes in some kind of hyperspace (m-theory, supersymmetry and infinite universe models), or something not discovered or postulated yet is open for debate. It's thought provoking and wonderous to even be able to ask questions like these, that's the esscence of science for me, "belief" is not required or recommended.

6. If you have not already answered above- do you believe in a finite or eternal universe?

7. How would you respond to the fine tuning argument?

A. Please don't think this is a cop out answer, but, for me, the question itself is a cop out.
For me, it smacks of the torid idea that the universe is here and tuned for the sake of us, and our existance placed firmly in the centre of everything that happened and will happen, which is utter nonsense. Thats anthropomorphising the universe itself, i can't articulate how much i hate this poisonous idea. We would need a whole new website and forum for me to exhaust myself of that one.

Biology:
8. Do you believe in IDT (Intelligent Design Theory), TOE (Theory of Evolution), or other? (Seems like a weird question but there are some atheists that believe that we were designed by aliens)
Ex- I believe in neo- Darwinism.

A. The Theory of Evolution is so called as is the Theory of Relativity, this is a common history denier bulletpoint my fellow freethinkers, and as you probably know, Relativity is real or your mobile phone wouldn't work. Still called a theory tho it is actually scientific fact. Evolution has been proven, again, do your own unbaised research, google mitochondrial eve for a start. Its still called The Theory of Evolution, tho it is now a proven undeniable fact. The Theory of Gravity? Wanna test that one? I do have a few fun suggestions for the deniers if they're up for some messy deaths.

9. Based on the question above, what would you say are the general points that back up your belief in this?
Ex- Fossil record, embryology, etc.
10. How does a belief in [response above] relate to an atheist/agnostic belief?
Ex- If our origins can be explained in a naturalistic way then I believe the origins of the universe can be explained in a naturalistic way too.
Ex- My belief in [response above] is not related to my atheist/ agnostic beliefs.

A. At the risk of repeating myself and sounding rude and cynical (sorry, i'm English), belief, again, in my understanding isn't required, but in the spirit of the questions i would have to say yes, fossil record and embryology, geneology, physics etc are all overwhelming evidence to me, and anyone else i know free of a dogmatic upbringing. I dont believe these things because i'm an atheist or whatever you would label me, i accept them because the imperical data and evidence is so strong.

Other:
10. Do you believe that morals are relative/preference? Please Explain

A. No, morals are not relative or a preference, i think that most normally programmed human beings have enough empathy to not rape and kill old ladies, we are a social animal, that behaviour, even on a fundamental level is genetic. That is, minus a belief system that raises the believers' importance or race above that of others, or personal and social reasons/situations that allow the breakdown of empathy or common sense.

11. Is your belief partly due to something that you may not be able to explain to others?
Ex- I have had numerous events occur in my life that are partly responsible for my belief.
Ex- I don’t know how to explain it. It seems almost as if it’s instinct… it just seems right to me.

A. No.

Again I’m not trying to be nosy. I just want to get a better understanding of beliefs that run quite contradictive to mine. Please don’t attack my belief; I respect your beliefs and I hope that you respect mine. If you have any questions for me then feel free to ask. Thanks for taking the time to help me with some of my questions. If you would like me to elaborate on any of the Q's please respond accordingly. If this is in the wrong section I am very sorry.