(December 4, 2016 at 6:48 pm)Aristocatt Wrote: Not sure, but I don't think the issue Bella is presenting has anything to do with only one culture commits rape.  The point is that refugees are committing crimes relatively more frequently per capita than European citizens.  I think the end point being made is that it is culturally driven.

The second point I mentioned is probably impossible to prove with sound data.  Too many confounding variables, most notably income.

The first point probably can be addressed somewhat well.
http://hoaxmap.org/
Not exactly an argument, as much as it is meant to cast shade on certain media organizations constantly purporting ludicrous claims about refugees.  

In terms of actual data, maybe Germany is the best place to look.
In 2015 the crime rate of refugees rose by roughly 80%...which is pretty scary.
Until you pair that with the fact that the number of refugees in Germany rose by 440%.
The rate of crime against refugees increased roughly 300%

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...me-thanks/
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/...reich.html

Additionally, there was some 21 page report done by the police across Germany, and the conclusion reached in the report was that refugees really are not committing crime relatively more frequently than other groups in Germany.

I haven't looked terribly deeply into this, so maybe you have some better sources, or additional data to cast light on the situation.

The problem with this data is the vague terms.

Crime.  This is just talking about any crime, speeding, smoking weed, whatever.  The main topic is sex crimes.

Refugees.  Not all refugees come from countries that are as bad as north Africa, Morocco or Algeria.  Refugees from Syria, Iraq or Afganistan commit less crimes.

Plus the refugees are bound to commit more sex crimes anyway since they're mostly male. 

And I wouldn't really trust reports or quotes from anyone high up in government in Germany since we got told the attacks around new years eve last year definitely couldn't be from immigrants before anyone actually knew who they were.  Turned out they were from North Africa and of Arabic appearance.

Vague terms is fair.

Sex crimes make up less than 1% of crimes committed according to the same police report I mentioned above. That is in contrast to reports from sources I do not trust (breitbart) that it is roughly 1/3 of crimes committed.

What is the ratio of North African refugees to ME refugees?
Given the political context, I am having a difficult time believing this is about North African refugees, and not more generally about MENA refugees.

Don't stratify along geographical grounds, and then fail to do so for gender.

---

In response to my comment about 1% sex crimes...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...84166.html

There was an interesting tidbit here, claiming that 3.8% of sex crimes in Germany were committed by refugees, who make up 2% of the population.

That being said, the source itself recognizes that the issue is gender related, not a cultural phenomena.

"Entire communities of local women raped and murdered by refugees fleeing from religious oppression in Europe." - The Cherokee Times June 16th, 1753

(December 4, 2016 at 7:54 pm)Aristocatt Wrote: Vague terms is fair.

Sex crimes make up less than 1% of crimes committed according to the same police report I mentioned above.  That is in contrast to reports from sources I do not trust (breitbart) that it is roughly 1/3 of crimes committed.

What is the ratio of North African refugees to ME refugees?  
Given the political context, I am having a difficult time believing this is about North African refugees, and not more generally about MENA refugees.

Don't stratify along geographical grounds, and then fail to do so for gender.

---

In response to my comment about 1% sex crimes...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...84166.html

There was an interesting tidbit here, claiming that 3.8% of sex crimes in Germany were committed by refugees, who make up 2% of the population.

That being said, the source itself recognizes that the issue is gender related, not a cultural phenomena.

You looked at the same article I did.

To me the bottom line is that people make the culture of a country.  And there's countries with a proven track record of sexual inequality and inequality of sexualities.

Yes gender is an issue to do with it aswell because men commit more sex crimes.

Shell, maybe you should consider studying psychology and becoming a therapist. I always enjoy reading your posts concerning whatever drama is going down in the forums and it seems you always know what to say and how to talk to people. I especially appreciate the advice you gave me when I wrote about my son Joseph. I think you'd be great at it.

I bet these people have enough local rapist/murderers in the country, without bringing in more. When are we going to deport all these white men who keep shooting up public places in America, huh? Oh wait, those are our crazies. Sorry.

(December 4, 2016 at 8:43 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Shell, maybe you should consider studying psychology and becoming a therapist. I always enjoy reading your posts concerning whatever drama is going down in the forums and it seems you always know what to say and how to talk to people. I especially appreciate the advice you gave me when I wrote about my son Joseph. I think you'd be great at it.

That's very sweet. I would absolutely love to try to help people with their mental/emotional problems. I'm afraid that my own keep me from holding a "normal" job. It's easy for me to have a panic attack and just move on to the next thing with work later from home, but I'd make an unreliable hourly employee. Maybe if I could do it online . . .

(December 4, 2016 at 4:46 pm)Shell B Wrote: If you stop making the distinction that lives in your country are more important than lives in another country, the question disappears.

Why would anyone stop making that distinction?

We have enough of our own problems. I prefer that foreign rapists stay in their own country. My wife and daughters mean more to me than people I've never met in another country.

(December 4, 2016 at 10:02 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(December 4, 2016 at 4:46 pm)Shell B Wrote: If you stop making the distinction that lives in your country are more important than lives in another country, the question disappears.

Why would anyone stop making that distinction?

For the sake of being impartial?

You don't need that distinction to argue your lifeboat ethics.

(December 4, 2016 at 10:02 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(December 4, 2016 at 4:46 pm)Shell B Wrote: If you stop making the distinction that lives in your country are more important than lives in another country, the question disappears.

Why would anyone stop making that distinction?

We have enough of our own problems. I prefer that foreign rapists stay in their own country. My wife and daughters mean more to me than people I've never met in another country.

Don't your wife and daughters mean more to you than rapists in this country too? Everyone prefers that foreign rapists stay in their own country. The problem is some of us care about those refugees who aren't rapists and want something to be done for them. My hope is that people can come up with a solution that doesn't leave families to be bombed into tiny pieces in a war torn country.