I'm also not sure if you've considered why you'd want to be part of a religion at all, even if it is "true". One doesn't follow logically from the other, although in reality it almost always does.

(December 12, 2016 at 2:04 pm)Luckie Wrote: Balaco, from what I can tell, you're more interested in the theological side to "why you should become am atheist", and a rather superficial one at that. If I were you, I'd be less interested in what someone says online about your beliefs and more concerned with the facts. Did you ever get a chance to view the links I gave you?

I've only had time to skim through them a bit and was planning on getting back to them eventually. I've been swamped with a lot of things lately, so I'm not able to spend too much time in my sessions online questioning the faith. Over the past few days I've mainly been focusing on researching and responding to forum posts to get perspective from both sides...though I know I need to supplement this with facts.

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(December 12, 2016 at 3:37 pm)robvalue Wrote: I'm also not sure if you've considered why you'd want to be part of a religion at all, even if it is "true". One doesn't follow logically from the other, although in reality it almost always does.

If Catholicism for example turns out to be the "correct" faith (or if it simply has the most accurate teachings out of all religions), meaning that we as humans are supposed to love and worship God, then I would want to make sure I'm fulfilling that. Not only to avoid Hell, but to genuinely love God and genuinely fulfill the lifestyle that we would "have" to live.

(December 12, 2016 at 9:40 pm)Balaco Wrote: If Catholicism for example turns out to be the "correct" faith (or if it simply has the most accurate teachings out of all religions), meaning that we as humans are supposed to love and worship God, then I would want to make sure I'm fulfilling that. Not only to avoid Hell, but to genuinely love God and genuinely fulfill the lifestyle that we would "have" to live.

So, you could actually love and worship a being that set up a system, knowing ahead of time, that the vast majority of humans will be punished for eternity?

Even if the Christian god did exist, I could not or would not love and worship such a moral monster.

I could not even consider Heaven a place I would want to be, knowing that so many of my fellow humans are being tortured for eternity for finite thought crimes.

The worst possible universe I could imagine, is one where the Christian god actually existed.

I don't understand how you could love something because you're supposed to love it. If we've simply been designed to mindlessly fulfil this worship role, then clearly we've broken our programming and have a choice.

Why? Why would a "God" need worship or love? Stop and think how ridiculous that is for a minute. Go outside and demand worship from an ant, and when it doesn't give it to you, pick it up and put it in the oven. (Don't really do that ) That's what we're talking about here. Why would you do that?

Also, you've described Catholicism as a mugging. Join, or burn. That's essentially what it is. Yet you're also expected to love the mugger. I find this whole thing absolutely disgusting and I, personally, refuse to bow down to it.

If we really are at the mercy of such an egotistical monster, then I can't trust anything it has to say. I can spend my whole life doing whatever shit it says, and saying how much I love it, and it can turn round and bin me for no reason at all. What can I do about it?

Such a thing deserves no respect in my opinion. I'd rather do what I think is right, and if it decides to punish me, so be it. I'm not going to waste what precious time I have pretending to love a monster and following its rules. There's definitely nothing to love about it.

We are "supposed" to love god as Father Son and Spirit, not because that is the ultimatum (love me or die!), but rather because love is the most fundamental thing all of us are trying to do with our lives (it's what we want to do), and god as Trinity is the truth about the foundation of everything which we are trying to love.

We want to love well, and knowledge of god as the Trinity and as the ultimate source and object of our love within everything else is necessary in loving the way we actually want.

(December 13, 2016 at 5:15 am)Ignorant Wrote: We are "supposed" to love god as Father Son and Spirit, not because that is the ultimatum (love me or die!), but rather because love is the most fundamental thing all of us are trying to do with our lives (it's what we want to do), and god as Trinity is the truth about the foundation of everything which we are trying to love.

We want to love well, and knowledge of god as the Trinity and as the ultimate source and object of our love within everything else is necessary in loving the way we actually want.

So... you're so desperate to love something, that you'll love an idea.
I don't know about you, but I prefer to love another human being.

(December 13, 2016 at 6:14 am)pocaracas Wrote: So... you're so desperate to love something, that you'll love an idea.
I don't know about you, but I prefer to love another human being.

It's easier to masturbate to a fantasy, than to understand and accept the perceived limitations and imperfections of reality. Our narcissistic egos tell us, that we deserve more love, than what some other meat-bag - or even a whole bunch of them - can give us. And that our affection, gratitude and admiration is too precious to be entirely wasted on this piece-of-sh*t world and it's highly unsatisfying inhabitants.

But we still need to somehow "vent" those emotions, so we create ideal beings - usually glorified humans, but not exclusively - which have no imperfections, as they're not constrained by reality and are therefore worthy of our most treasured and private feelings of complete adoration, dependence and trust, akin to those an infant instinctively has for a parent.

Similarly - for many people it's preferable to accept the unconditional and total tyranny of an imaginary father-figure, rather than to admit actual complete subservience to other human beings.

Our brains - especially when trained from a very young age - excel at creating and sustaining these kinds of abstract constructs and narratives, in order to preserve our love of self, regardless of circumstances. Deep down, we all still have the infantile instincts, that convince us of our importance, uniqueness and preciousness in the eyes of an all-powerful and enigmatic, yet benevolent and dedicated parent-figure.
And religious frauds spent millennia, learning how to exploit those instincts.

(December 5, 2016 at 2:45 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(December 5, 2016 at 10:16 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I've seen that video here before on a number of occasions, and to me it's just silly. No offense Ben.

It's making stereotypes and assumptions about all people of faith. I for one, don't care in the least if someone doesn't have the same views on religion/God as I do. Obviously I think it's a good thing if someone does, because I believe it's the truth, but I most certainly don't feel personally offended by it if they don't. Believe what you want lol. So to me, watching this video is like, "Eye roll, these folks are way off and making the assumption that we're all immature, shallow, and stupid. How typical."

Ironically enough I've seen more people here who have felt angry that I believe in God than I personally feel towards those who don't.

I believe you (the part I bolded).  But you're not very representative among the believers we get through here or know in RL.  That is what makes you especially nice to have around - well, one of the reasons. (I think quite a few are also charmed by your poop obsession.) Likewise there are plenty of us who don't feel angry over what people believe, some of us are even intrigued by it.

You left out the fact that she's hawt. Anyone who has seen her backside in a bathing suit can attest to this.

(December 13, 2016 at 7:26 am)Nymphadora Wrote:

(December 5, 2016 at 2:45 pm)Whateverist Wrote: I believe you (the part I bolded).  But you're not very representative among the believers we get through here or know in RL.  That is what makes you especially nice to have around - well, one of the reasons.  (I think quite a few are also charmed by your poop obsession.)  Likewise there are plenty of us who don't feel angry over what people believe, some of us are even intrigued by it.

You left out the fact that she's hawt. Anyone who has seen her backside in a bathing suit can attest to this.

Can I haz her image in a bathing suit with backside, plz?

(December 13, 2016 at 7:26 am)Nymphadora Wrote: You left out the fact that she's hawt. Anyone who has seen her backside in a bathing suit can attest to this.

Silly Nymphadora, catholics are never attractive. No offense CL.