(December 13, 2016 at 6:16 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I talked about it a little bit in another thread:

(September 21, 2016 at 11:21 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Going back and reading through all these responses, I think IF there is to be any motivation for continuing to believe, I do think Thena got it right that it would be hope. It definitely is not and should NOT be any sort of sole reason for anyone to believe anything... there should still be real points to back up and support any belief. But I can see hope as being a complimentary force that keeps a person believing.

I have a few reasons why I believe what I do and I think I have touched on them a couple of times here before.

For starters, I really do think it is logical to believe there is some sort of supernatural force out there that started all this. Things in the natural world all have a beginning... they all came from/formed from somewhere/something. Nothing in the natural world just magically forms itself from nothing at all, neither can we say it has always existed. Both of those are contrary to the laws of nature as we know them. This supports my idea that whatever it was that has always existed and caused other thing to exist, is of a supernatural force, aka - above nature as we know it. This isn't something I choose to believe. It really does make more sense to me that way.

Of course, none of this is to say that such supernatural force was the Christian God. That specific belief of mine comes from other points. History be one of them. Like the crazy fast spread of early Christianity before we had good transportation, telephones, etc. The lives of the saints serve as witness to me as well, and all the extraordinary things surrounding them and what they did and what happened to them. The many accounts of miracles, particularly the one in Fatima which I find pretty convincing. The fact that we all seem to have some sort of basic, objective, universal moral code about what is good and what is bad.

And to seal the deal (and I have talked about this before), the miracle I experienced with my own senses 10 years ago. Definitely a supernatural occurrence, and one that very much and specifically pointed towards Christianity.      

Of course, none of this is any sort of concrete evidence that can be proven in a lab or mathematically, etc. That's where the hope comes in. I can't prove to you concretely or to myself that any of this is true. I can only add up reasons which to me, make it a good possibility that it is all true, and believe and hope that it really is. In the same way, I can't show concrete proof and evidence to anyone that my husband loves me, and there are plenty of people out there who don't believe in that type of life long marital love between 2 people. But I have many things that point to him loving me as being a real possibility, and so I believe and I hope that he does.    

Likewise, at the end of the day, us religious folks are people of hope.

I hope that helps shed some light.

I'll also add that Catholic doctrine on faith and morals just make sense to me. Natural Law makes sense to me, and it makes sense to me how that ties in with God's nature.

Cool...
Personally, I'd dismiss the supernatural force that started it all... who said there's a start at all?

History and the spread of Christianity... meh... it spread in the lower castes, to which it appealed over all other aristocrat belief systems.
Saints as witnesses... hmmm I see those as circular in nature - not trustworthy.
Accounts of miracles, particularly Fátima... yeah, you know where I stand on that one... curious atmospheric phenomenon. Lucky for the people who set it up, or half expected? I can't tell.

Your very own miracle, 10 years ago... are you sure it was a miracle? Have you ruled out all possible natural processes?

Finally, you hope it's all true.
Well, I hope you're right and don't suffer any disappointment when the time comes.

I keep my options open. The threat of hell bugs me not, for I see it as human invention to steer the populace into behaving properly. So, if there is a god and it is good, it will appreciate my using the intellectual skills given to me, instead of just following what some folk said.
If there is a god and it is not good, then I don't want to spend my life cowering about it. I'll live my life.
If there is no god, I'll live my life.

(December 13, 2016 at 6:34 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(December 13, 2016 at 6:16 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I talked about it a little bit in another thread:


I'll also add that Catholic doctrine on faith and morals just make sense to me. Natural Law makes sense to me, and it makes sense to me how that ties in with God's nature.

Cool...
Personally, I'd dismiss the supernatural force that started it all... who said there's a start at all?

History and the spread of Christianity... meh... it spread in the lower castes, to which it appealed over all other aristocrat belief systems.
Saints as witnesses... hmmm I see those as circular in nature - not trustworthy.
Accounts of miracles, particularly Fátima... yeah, you know where I stand on that one... curious atmospheric phenomenon. Lucky for the people who set it up, or half expected? I can't tell.

Your very own miracle, 10 years ago... are you sure it was a miracle? Have you ruled out all possible natural processes?

Finally, you hope it's all true.
Well, I hope you're right and don't suffer any disappointment when the time comes.

I keep my options open. The threat of hell bugs me not, for I see it as human invention to steer the populace into behaving properly. So, if there is a god and it is good, it will appreciate my using the intellectual skills given to me, instead of just following what some folk said.
If there is a god and it is not good, then I don't want to spend my life cowering about it. I'll live my life.
If there is no god, I'll live my life.

Thanks love. 

There's no way that could have happened naturally. I also find it highly unlikely that myself and the person I was with (both mentally healthy individuals) both had the exact same delusion at the exact same time.

(December 13, 2016 at 6:41 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Thanks love. 

There's no way that could have happened naturally. I also find it highly unlikely that myself and the person I was with (both mentally healthy individuals) both had the exact same delusion at the exact same time.

You know that it happens, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_%C3%A0_deux
As I was reading this wiki page, I remembered watching a movie about this... what was it called... it was a horror movie... google just helped:
Bug (2006)

(December 13, 2016 at 5:53 pm)robvalue Wrote: I find it ridiculous that I could love something that is holding my future hostage, pending my obedience of its arbitrary rules. That's Stockholm Syndrome; this has come up a lot. I don't think that would happen to me even with an evident jailor, so it's certainly not happening with an ethereal one that I only find out about second hand. He can fuck off. I don't care whether it's Hell, or nothingness, or whatever. It's clearly a less favorable afterlife for me if I don't do what I'm told. That's blackmail, and I don't love people who try to blackmail me. I tell them to take a hike.

And no, it's not the same as when human X does this and that to human Y. I am so sick of God/human analogies. They are completely flawed because humans lack power, resources and foresight.

God is welcome to come explain all this crap to me, and why he isn't actually a dick. But he doesn't seem interested.

My Ramen, you are a person after my own heart!  I have often illustrated this precise thing in God's own words.

God Wrote:Come on, baby, you know I love you.  But if you ever leave me I WILL LIGHT YOUR ASS ON FIRE!!!

I think that's from Psalms.

(December 13, 2016 at 6:47 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(December 13, 2016 at 6:41 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Thanks love. 

There's no way that could have happened naturally. I also find it highly unlikely that myself and the person I was with (both mentally healthy individuals) both had the exact same delusion at the exact same time.

You know that it happens, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_%C3%A0_deux
As I was reading this wiki page, I remembered watching a movie about this... what was it called... it was a horror movie... google just helped:
Bug (2006)

I can't get into detail without explaining the whole thing. But the way things went down proves that such was not the case. Basically, I experienced it when I was alone, and then she experienced it when she got home without me saying anything to her, and mentioned it. And then it happened while we were both there.

(December 13, 2016 at 7:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 13, 2016 at 6:47 pm)pocaracas Wrote: You know that it happens, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_%C3%A0_deux
As I was reading this wiki page, I remembered watching a movie about this... what was it called... it was a horror movie... google just helped:
Bug (2006)

I can't get into detail without explaining the whole thing. But the way things went down proves that such was not the case. Basically, I experienced it when I was alone, and then she experienced it when she got home without me saying anything to her, and mentioned it. And then it happened while we were both there.

ooOOOOoooo Spooooooky!
Wish I was there!

(December 13, 2016 at 7:38 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(December 13, 2016 at 7:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I can't get into detail without explaining the whole thing. But the way things went down proves that such was not the case. Basically, I experienced it when I was alone, and then she experienced it when she got home without me saying anything to her, and mentioned it. And then it happened while we were both there.

ooOOOOoooo Spooooooky!
Wish I was there!

Lol it wasn't scary.

(December 13, 2016 at 7:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 13, 2016 at 7:38 pm)pocaracas Wrote: ooOOOOoooo Spooooooky!
Wish I was there!

Lol it wasn't scary.

Spooky doesn't need to be scary.
Besides, a cute Brazilian girl was there... Definitely wish I was there!

(December 13, 2016 at 8:42 am)operator Wrote:

(December 13, 2016 at 7:26 am)Nymphadora Wrote: You left out the fact that she's hawt. Anyone who has seen her backside in a bathing suit can attest to this.

Silly Nymphadora, catholics are never attractive. No offense CL.

Pffft

"You're unattractive because you're Catholic. No offense though!" 

The trouble with catholicks is that they don't age well.