(December 15, 2016 at 3:18 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(December 15, 2016 at 3:09 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: This is the problem, defining the appropriate safeguards.

Yeah.  And I'm not necessarily against expanding the availability of this kind of thing to those other than terminally ill patients or patients that are out of treatment options or living with a severely crippling disability.  My position is that for now, let's at least get this up and running for the terminally ill.

Agreed.

(December 15, 2016 at 3:02 pm)ukatheist Wrote:

(December 15, 2016 at 2:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you think this should be restricted only to those who are terminally ill? Or at least permanently debilitated enough to where their quality of life is greatly diminished?

Or should it be open to whoever wishes to die?

Imo, if someone who is physically able wishes to die, then there are plenty if ways then can die without assistance. However, these are likely to be painful, risk causing permanent and severe physical damage that does not result in death, and risk causing severe mental distress to whoever discovers or otherwise has to process the body.

If assisted suicide can offer a painless and dignified end as an alternative, I don't see why it shouldn't be available to those who aren't terminally ill/incurable as well as those who are, provided appropriate safeguards are in place.

That's a good thing though. Because the thought of it being scary and dangerous helps deter people from actually following though. 

I'm not gonna lie, I am very surprised by the responses of this thread. A while back ago we were all extremely worried about a member of this forum after he had made a string of suicidal posts. We organized that someone who lived in his country call the police, who broke down his door in the middle of the night to save him or stop him from whatever he might try to do.

...So it's puzzling for me to see so many people here saying we should not only refrain from trying to deter a suicidal person, but that we should be making suicide easier and more available to them also. I mean, what??

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(December 15, 2016 at 3:05 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(December 15, 2016 at 2:56 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I feel like it would be a disservice to those dying of brain cancer to say that we are all terminally ill.

Any particular reason that you picked brain cancer? Won't any non treatable/non remittable disease do?

They are just closer to the terminal end. Hopefully I'm closer than you. Is that a disservice?

Brain cancer was just the example that came to mind.

About 1.5 years ago there was a discussion thread here with regard to euthanasia and depression. It was about a Belgian lady that had been granted the right to euthanasia but the discussion stopped prior to the scheduled death date. Found this on youtube. Interesting that she choose not to go thru with it. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWWkUzkf...e=youtu.be

C_L I don't think anyone here would say that family members and friends shouldn't be involved in these decisions.

I'd think we all would agree that you shouldn't be able to walk in to CVS and get a death pill.

There should be a process that at the very least includes independent psychoanalyses. I also think the price ought to be capped at a percentage of the cost so that there isn't a profit motivation. This is the portion of the equation that is most difficult to navigate in our healthcare economy, IMO.

(December 15, 2016 at 2:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you think this should be restricted only to those who are terminally ill? Or at least permanently debilitated enough to where their quality of life is greatly diminished?

Or should it be open to whoever wishes to die?

It should be available to anyone who wishes to die, as long as they are able to consent.

(December 15, 2016 at 3:30 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: [quote='ukatheist' pid='1470014' dateline='1481828520']

That's a good thing though. Because the thought of it being scary and dangerous helps deter people from actually following though. 

I'm not gonna lie, I am very surprised by the responses of this thread. A while back ago we were all extremely worried about a member of this forum after he had made a string of suicidal posts. We organized that someone who lived in his country call the police, who broke down his door in the middle of the night to save him or stop him from whatever he might try to do.

...So it's puzzling for me to see so many people here saying we should not only refrain from trying to deter a suicidal person, but that we should be making suicide easier and more available to them also. I mean, what??

I did not say that a person should not be deterred. I just think that someone who rationally comes to the conclusion that life is preferable to death should have the option of ending it in a way that is pain free and dignified.

And my personal opinion is that if a suicidal person has somewhere to go where they can speak freely about their desire to die, and their reasons, (without being sectioned as being a risk to themselves) that may reveal alternatives that they may not have considered previously. So being deterred by getting help and objectively looking at all the options, rather than by fear I guess is what I am saying.

But, at the end of the day, what place do any of us have to decide that a person who has considered all available options and chosen death, must go on living despite their own wishes or face a painful and risky death?

(December 15, 2016 at 10:55 am)pool the great Wrote: Yep. Think about the shift of power. If the government treats us like shit we'll just kill ourselves. This will force them to treat us better. Just think about the shift of power overnight. Governments of the world will be evaluated on its ability to keep its citizens alive and happy and if they can't keep us content they'll simply vanish into irrelevance and slowly into oblivion.

Just think about that shift of power..

I would have to say that view is utterly wrong based on the experience with ATOS. The bodies will just be swept under the carpet.
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The right to die should be recognized as long as no one can be compelled to provide that death for you. I am a veteran nurse of twenty five years. Sorry, I am not helping anyone kill themselves.

(December 13, 2016 at 10:55 pm)pool the great Wrote: I mean, c'mon, every human has a right to live, shouldn't they have a right to die too..

What do you think?

1) Is it moral to grant a human the right to die?
2) Is it moral to deny a human the right to die?

Yes. The choice to die is a right, but all rights have their limitations in the context of society. Legalize and regulate assisted suicide.

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(December 15, 2016 at 3:30 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That's a good thing though. Because the thought of it being scary and dangerous helps deter people from actually following though. 

It's understandable that you'd be concerned about people seeking to find easier ways for others to kill themselves. But in some contexts, that really is the most compassionate act one can do for that person.