(December 19, 2016 at 6:02 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Lol. I was starting to think about it and got overwhelmed, like right away. Selling my house or renting it, how to get Tanner there, what to do with all my shit, going to a country where I don't speak the language...

Too much!

Rent it! the rent will pay for the mortgage! And leave some extra for you.
Tanner... pets usually need a tranquilizer and sleep all the way.
All your shit.... leave it in the rented place? Bring some of it?
The language... it's not too different from Spanish. But most people can speak to you in English.

(December 19, 2016 at 6:30 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(December 19, 2016 at 6:02 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Lol. I was starting to think about it and got overwhelmed, like right away. Selling my house or renting it, how to get Tanner there, what to do with all my shit, going to a country where I don't speak the language...

Too much!

Rent it! the rent will pay for the mortgage! And leave some extra for you.
Tanner... pets usually need a tranquilizer and sleep all the way.
All your shit.... leave it in the rented place? Bring some of it?
The language... it's not too different from Spanish. But most people can speak to you in English.

You were soooo close to your prime directive. One day!

(December 19, 2016 at 6:33 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(December 19, 2016 at 6:30 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Rent it! the rent will pay for the mortgage! And leave some extra for you.
Tanner... pets usually need a tranquilizer and sleep all the way.
All your shit.... leave it in the rented place? Bring some of it?
The language... it's not too different from Spanish. But most people can speak to you in English.

You were soooo close to your prime directive. One day!

Dammit... should have told you to sell the place!

(December 19, 2016 at 11:41 am)plumbing101mike Wrote:

(December 18, 2016 at 5:02 am)Aroura Wrote: I fully expect a few of the less sensitive members on this forum to troll me here, but I'm not in any mood to be called snowflake, pansy, or be told to grow up and put on my big boy pants (or other like insults), so I won't be responding to any comments like that.  I know I can't stop you from posting, just know I'll not be responding to any cruel trolling.

This thread is to help people who need to heal, for people who are suffering from legitimate grief since the election.  Like me.  I'd like to share with anyone here going through anything similar.  

Still grieving Trump? You are not alone

So almost every morning since the election I wake up feeling so strange.  Depressed, angry, more depressed, anxious, etc. Yes it's getting a bit better, but coming up on the electoral college vote the stress is starting to make it worse again.  I am having actual nightmares, and even when not election themed, my sleep has been much more disturbed, and my waking hours I feel constantly distracted and tired.  I cry over literally nothing.  In the shower, while playing video games, while driving to the store. My thoughts wander in mid sentence, I keep catching myself just staring off into space. 

The first few days after the election I thought it WAS normal, and that it would pass.  But it isn't passing!  I'm angrier than I've been in...well, maybe ever.  But that's only when I have the energy to even be angry. 

I'm trying to identify exactly why I feel this grief so deeply. I honestly feel if it had been Romney, or Jeb Bush, I would have been pissed and snippy for a few days, then moved on.  
This is like someone died.  I feel very real emotional pain,and it's not stopping, because I'm constantly reminded of the cause.  Can't look at FB, this site, or any news anywhere without a reminder that is akin to a punch in the face.

It feels so extreme.  I've tried to identify what my grief and anger is centered around, but it isn't just one thing.  So here a few things I have been feeling, rational or not.  I need to get them off my chest.

I honestly feel like Hillary lost because she's a woman.  Yeah, I know ALL of the problems that faced her, I've seen them listed over and over.  But Trump was just as bad or far worse in every category.  Why are people upset that she's on the side of wallstreet, but ignore the oh so obvious fact that Trump will be as bad or worse?
(I also hear hillary lost her shit on election night, all as an aside with sniggers included from the person telling it.  And you know, even if true, I just feel so bad for her!  Losing to that monster, the fact that she has returned to the public eye at ALL says something about her fortitude.  I still catch myself trying out how it would have felt to see her smiling face on the news each day instead of that orange sphincter, and that makes me sad too.  What might have been.  


I feel betrayed by my own country.  I thought people were better than this, better than him!  I felt we were moving away from his kind of thinking.  Yes, I know these people still exist, I guess I just didn't realize they compromised between 25 and 50% of everyone.

I am angry at people who fell for (and continue to fall for) fake news.  I'm angry that people are so selfish and so easily fooled by a con man.

My husband has told me in the past that he thinks I'm an optimist.  I feel there is "good" in everyone, and I try to look for it.  I forgive easily, and empathize constantly.  So now I'm angry at my own naitivity.  To think that people really wanted to be part of humanity as a whole, to love others as they are.  A world without borders, governments, religions, etc.  I know we are still so far away, but I felt a bit hopeful that we were moving in the right direction!  Now it seems John Lennons Imagine was just violently murdered by a mob screaming "Trump that Bitch" and thrown in the gutter.  And yes, I see the irony of me not accepting everyone here, which is perhaps part of my frustration and anger.

I spent a brief amount of time taking the advice of trying to talk to Trump voters to find that common ground, to understand and hopefully move forward.  But the immediate response in every case has been condescending name calling.  I'm a SJW, or a libtard, or an insane leftist that is bullying people, etc.  I stopped trying to talk to them.  They are full of glorified righteous anger, and my pathetic grief cannot withstand it.

I catch myself looking at people's cars, their faces, their clothes, and wondering, did they vote for Trump?  I've NEVER done this kind of thing before!  I don't judge people based on who they voted for, that's stupid!  Or it was; now, I am torn.

I tried to get involved in some activism, and although it made me feel really energized at first, that didn't last. First, it was the postcard campaign against Bannon, and signing petitions.  I have even made more than one donation to groups I've never donated to before, such as Planned parenthood and the ACCLU. But then a few days later, I start feeling that none of my activism will make a difference, so I'm right back to depression.  I mean, nothing is stopping the White house filling with science deniers, creationists, bigots of the very worst stripe, and completely unqualified 1%ers with literally 0 experience at what they are now in charge of.

Well, I'm really opening myself up to hurt here, but I'm hoping that in doing so I can find a way to start healing.

I voted for Trump. He was not my first choice comma but he was the only legitimate Choice against Hillary. I see a lot of myself in your words. A picture how I would have felt if Hillary would have won and I see the name calling that you do with Trump and Trump supporters and I have thought the very same things of Hillary and Hillary supporters.
I tried to picture how I would have felt had she won and it is very similar to the feelings that you have. Major disillusionment of my fellow countrymen.
While I try to see the good in Trump you see only the bad. Well you see the good in Hillary I see only the bad. We are actually very similar, we are just approaching this from two different perspectives period from two different viewpoints. And I would bet that if you and I were friends we would find that we agree on probably 70% of everything that matters.
Just so you know, my voting Trump has absolutely nothing and I mean nothing to do with Hillary being a woman. It had almost everything to do with my perception of Hillary is a criminal and a horrible horrible person. Much like your perception of trump as a horrible horrible person.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

What good is there in Trump. He's a racist, he's a liar, he's soon to be a traitor, he's a serial bankrupt who hates paying people to work for them, he's a sexual predator who in all likelihood is a child rapist, he advocates for the murder of his political opponents, he's a fraud, he consorts with belligerent powers in order to ger elected.

And that's just the stuff we know about.

---

(December 19, 2016 at 11:34 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (Ok, so I know I said I'd stay out of this out of respect for Aroura's intention for this thread. But I just want to make one more post, which is directed at some of the responses that keep popping up here and not directed at all towards the actual OP of the thread or towards Aurora. After this, I will be done. And I hope more people will come in here out of support, and not to keep arguing with each other. And honestly A Theist, please just leave Aroura out of this. She's having a rough time. If you can't say something nice to her, just leave it be. She started this thread for support, not for criticism.)  

I think the problem is some of you are missing the point we were trying to make. 

What I was trying to say was, just because a person thinks "X" doesn't mean they are motivated by racist or bigoted or homophobic or xenophobic reasons. And tossing those words around at people who just see things differently than we do isn't helpful and isn't tolerant of diversity of thought. This is exactly what I was trying to say to Steel on my long post to him a few pages ago. 

As an example, many people here were saying that everyone who voted for Trump is a racist. I countered this point by explaining that my dad very begrudgingly voted for Trump as the lesser of 2 evils because as much as he disliked him, he disliked Hillary more. I explained that my dad is not a racist person and that he did not like the racist comments Trump made. But some people here, who don't even know my father, insisted on telling me he was a racist bigot simply because he voted for Trump. They refuse to consider that perhaps his thinking was different than theirs was.  

And as Captain said, every time he criticizes the religion of Islam, he's dismissed as being a racist even though his criticism has 0 to do with the race of most Muslims and everything to do with the ideology itself. But those who choose to call him a racist bigot anyway refuse to consider that. That right there is intolerance of thought diversity. They refuse to see that he may be thinking of it differently in a way that has 0 to do with race and everything to do with the religion itself. Have any of you watched the little talk Ben Affleck had with Bill Mayer and Sam Harris a couple years ago? Ben told both of them they were being racist because they criticized the religion of Islam. 

It works this way with a lot of issues. Plenty of which Steel outlined on his post and I responded to. Don't agree with gay marriage? Oh it must be because you hate gays, you homophobe. Don't agree with abortion? Oh it must be because you hate women, you misogynist. Don't agree with letting illegal immigrants stay? Oh it must be because you hate Mexicans, you racist. Voted for Trump? Oh it must be because you hate everyone who isn't a white Christian male, you bigot.

Some people here keep saying "well, if you say or think something bigoted, I'm going to call you a bigot." But again, can't you consider for a second that perhaps their opinion on something has everything to do with a different way of looking at it and 0 to do with any sort of bigotry? That's diversity of thought. And making that consideration is tolerance for diversity of thought.

Let me turn this around for a second and show you, again, my own example of things the other way around. Among other things, I refrain from thinking ya'll support "baby killing" just because you are pro choice. Because even though I 100% see abortion as the taking of a little one's life, I understand that your motivation for being pro choice has 0 to do with killing babies, and that you simply just don't see it that way. And so I'm not going to sit here and call you baby killers for it. I'm always open to discussion about it and I'll disagree with your views on it all day long. But I'm not going to think any less of you and I'm not going to call you a horrible thing such as baby killer, because I can understand that that isn't your perspective and it isn't your motivation for being pro choice.   

^That's how tolerance for diversity of thought works, and it goes both ways.

Oh, I get what you're saying all right. Mealy-mouthed hand wringing still doesn't change the facts at hanf, those who voted Trump voted for a racist candidate who made racism his sole platform. If they are not racists, they shouldn't have voted for him.

(December 20, 2016 at 5:45 am)Tazzycorn Wrote:

(December 19, 2016 at 11:41 am)plumbing101mike Wrote: I voted for Trump. He was not my first choice comma but he was the only legitimate Choice against Hillary. I see a lot of myself in your words. A picture how I would have felt if Hillary would have won and I see the name calling that you do with Trump and Trump supporters and I have thought the very same things of Hillary and Hillary supporters.
I tried to picture how I would have felt had she won and it is very similar to the feelings that you have. Major disillusionment of my fellow countrymen.
While I try to see the good in Trump you see only the bad. Well you see the good in Hillary I see only the bad. We are actually very similar, we are just approaching this from two different perspectives period from two different viewpoints. And I would bet that if you and I were friends we would find that we agree on probably 70% of everything that matters.
Just so you know, my voting Trump has absolutely nothing and I mean nothing to do with Hillary being a woman. It had almost everything to do with my perception of Hillary is a criminal and a horrible horrible person. Much like your perception of trump as a horrible horrible person.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

What good is there in Trump. He's a racist, he's a liar, he's soon to be a traitor, he's a serial bankrupt who hates paying people to work for them, he's a sexual predator who in all likelihood is a child rapist, he advocates for the murder of his political opponents, he's a fraud, he consorts with belligerent powers in order to ger elected.

And that's just the stuff we know about.

---

(December 19, 2016 at 11:34 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (Ok, so I know I said I'd stay out of this out of respect for Aroura's intention for this thread. But I just want to make one more post, which is directed at some of the responses that keep popping up here and not directed at all towards the actual OP of the thread or towards Aurora. After this, I will be done. And I hope more people will come in here out of support, and not to keep arguing with each other. And honestly A Theist, please just leave Aroura out of this. She's having a rough time. If you can't say something nice to her, just leave it be. She started this thread for support, not for criticism.)  

I think the problem is some of you are missing the point we were trying to make. 

What I was trying to say was, just because a person thinks "X" doesn't mean they are motivated by racist or bigoted or homophobic or xenophobic reasons. And tossing those words around at people who just see things differently than we do isn't helpful and isn't tolerant of diversity of thought. This is exactly what I was trying to say to Steel on my long post to him a few pages ago. 

As an example, many people here were saying that everyone who voted for Trump is a racist. I countered this point by explaining that my dad very begrudgingly voted for Trump as the lesser of 2 evils because as much as he disliked him, he disliked Hillary more. I explained that my dad is not a racist person and that he did not like the racist comments Trump made. But some people here, who don't even know my father, insisted on telling me he was a racist bigot simply because he voted for Trump. They refuse to consider that perhaps his thinking was different than theirs was.  

And as Captain said, every time he criticizes the religion of Islam, he's dismissed as being a racist even though his criticism has 0 to do with the race of most Muslims and everything to do with the ideology itself. But those who choose to call him a racist bigot anyway refuse to consider that. That right there is intolerance of thought diversity. They refuse to see that he may be thinking of it differently in a way that has 0 to do with race and everything to do with the religion itself. Have any of you watched the little talk Ben Affleck had with Bill Mayer and Sam Harris a couple years ago? Ben told both of them they were being racist because they criticized the religion of Islam. 

It works this way with a lot of issues. Plenty of which Steel outlined on his post and I responded to. Don't agree with gay marriage? Oh it must be because you hate gays, you homophobe. Don't agree with abortion? Oh it must be because you hate women, you misogynist. Don't agree with letting illegal immigrants stay? Oh it must be because you hate Mexicans, you racist. Voted for Trump? Oh it must be because you hate everyone who isn't a white Christian male, you bigot.

Some people here keep saying "well, if you say or think something bigoted, I'm going to call you a bigot." But again, can't you consider for a second that perhaps their opinion on something has everything to do with a different way of looking at it and 0 to do with any sort of bigotry? That's diversity of thought. And making that consideration is tolerance for diversity of thought.

Let me turn this around for a second and show you, again, my own example of things the other way around. Among other things, I refrain from thinking ya'll support "baby killing" just because you are pro choice. Because even though I 100% see abortion as the taking of a little one's life, I understand that your motivation for being pro choice has 0 to do with killing babies, and that you simply just don't see it that way. And so I'm not going to sit here and call you baby killers for it. I'm always open to discussion about it and I'll disagree with your views on it all day long. But I'm not going to think any less of you and I'm not going to call you a horrible thing such as baby killer, because I can understand that that isn't your perspective and it isn't your motivation for being pro choice.   

^That's how tolerance for diversity of thought works, and it goes both ways.

Oh, I get what you're saying all right. Mealy-mouthed hand wringing still doesn't change the facts at hanf, those who voted Trump voted for a racist candidate who made racism his sole platform. If they are not racists, they shouldn't have voted for him.

Absolutely they can polish a turd all day like and say it was for this or that reason you sided with trump and his bigot followers  but in the end it's still shit  and they still sided with evil

(December 20, 2016 at 6:23 am)Orochi Wrote:

(December 20, 2016 at 5:45 am)Tazzycorn Wrote: What good is there in Trump. He's a racist, he's a liar, he's soon to be a traitor, he's a serial bankrupt who hates paying people to work for them, he's a sexual predator who in all likelihood is a child rapist, he advocates for the murder of his political opponents, he's a fraud, he consorts with belligerent powers in order to ger elected.

And that's just the stuff we know about.

---

Oh, I get what you're saying all right. Mealy-mouthed hand wringing still doesn't change the facts at hanf, those who voted Trump voted for a racist candidate who made racism his sole platform. If they are not racists, they shouldn't have voted for him.

Absolutely they can polish a turd all day like and say it was for this or that reason you sided with trump and his bigot followers  but in the end it's still shit  and they still sided with evil

Both candidates were evil. Some just disagree on who the lesser evil was.

Lol @ either of them being evil.

Hilary Clinton certainly isn't evil. Donald Trump is an immature selfish bigoted inmoral cretin and the worst president America will have ever had.... but even for him I'm not sure I'd use the label "evil".

And as for "evil" in the sense of the lesser evil.... yes fucking hell Hilary is the lesser evil. Does anyone who think Hilary is worse even listen to the crap Trump says? He an immoral insulting corrupt lying embarassment, not a politiican. He has all Hilaries flaws plus extra far worse ones.

It's not all a matter of opinion. Some people have facts on their sides. There are reasons for why Trump is far worse than Hilary.

(December 20, 2016 at 7:01 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Lol @ either of them being evil.

Hilary Clinton certainly isn't evil. Donald Trump is an immature selfish bigoted inmoral cretin and the worst president America will have ever had.... but even for him I'm not sure I'd use the label "evil".

And as for "evil" in the sense of the lesser evil.... yes fucking hell Hilary is the lesser evil. Does anyone who think Hilary is worse even listen to the crap Trump says? He an immoral insulting corrupt lying embarassment, not a politiican. He has all Hilaries flaws plus extra far worse ones.

It's not all a matter of opinion. Some people have facts on their sides. There are reasons for why Trump is far worse than Hilary.

It is, in fact, a matter of opinion as to who is worse between Trump and Hillary. If Hillary's politics are at odds with ones own, then she is the subjectively worse candidate lol.

(December 20, 2016 at 7:01 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Lol @ either of them being evil.

Hilary Clinton certainly isn't evil. Donald Trump is an immature selfish bigoted inmoral cretin and the worst president America will have ever had.... but even for him I'm not sure I'd use the label "evil".

And as for "evil" in the sense of the lesser evil.... yes fucking hell Hilary is the lesser evil. Does anyone who think Hilary is worse even listen to the crap Trump says? He an immoral insulting corrupt lying embarassment, not a politiican. He has all Hilaries flaws plus extra far worse ones.

It's not all a matter of opinion. Some people have facts on their sides. There are reasons for why Trump is far worse than Hilary.

How well do you know either of them?

Not picking sides at all but how many sentences have you heard either of them speak put together.

You've never met them, don't live in the same country as them, your evidence for neither of them being evil is a collection of around 100 media soundbites and maybe you watched the debates between them both I don't know.  The debates where they're dressed in suits trying as hard as they can to portray presidential material.

According to the mudslinging battles between them both Hillary is a war monger who laughed about Gadaffi being killed "We came, we saw, he died, bwhahahaha"  And a lawyer who seemed to be of the opinion her client was guilty and laughed about the fact she was surprised he managed to get away not guilty.

Donald Trump I don't even need to go through because everything bad he's ever said has created 10 forum threads on here each time.  Grabbing pussy, being rich through possible devious means, or not being rich and lying about it.

(December 20, 2016 at 6:40 am)CanOfMountainDew Wrote:

(December 20, 2016 at 6:23 am)Orochi Wrote: Absolutely they can polish a turd all day like and say it was for this or that reason you sided with trump and his bigot followers  but in the end it's still shit  and they still sided with evil

Both candidates were evil. Some just disagree on who the lesser evil was.

While you can definitely make a case for Clinton being a tarnished candidate (who isn't), calling her evil is akin to asserting that fairies luve down the end of your back garden. Trump on the other hand, can only be called a fascist (if you're being charitable on him).