(January 4, 2017 at 7:21 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(January 4, 2017 at 6:53 am)Jesster Wrote: Ah, okay

I have never been directly offended by the Amish. Perhaps Dragonspride1995 could study the Amish.

Directly, no. But I hate them for indoctrinating their children and giving them no freedom of choice. Yes, I'm aware that there are certain very limited opportunities but that's like saying I'll kiss you after I've violated you.

(January 4, 2017 at 6:52 am)chimp3 Wrote:

(January 4, 2017 at 6:48 am)Jesster Wrote: I care. While I'd ultimately prefer no religion at all, I will still take the well-behaved Christians over the asshat Christians.

I am still curious as to why he thinks so.

Christianity is not going to go away. But there is a level of hypocrisy in the church that needs to be fixed. You guys think it comes from Christianity, id believe it comes tribalism. But on either count the outcome is the same, Christians treating you guys like crap, and that needs to be fixed.

---

(January 3, 2017 at 10:47 pm)Astonished Wrote:

(January 3, 2017 at 10:02 pm)johan Wrote: All are welcome here, but if you say so....

I don't think I've ever been treated poorly by any christian for being atheist. Of course as a rule, I keep my atheism to myself and I do not share it with my friends or coworkers. My religion is none of their business and theirs is none of mine.

I get the premiss you're trying to hit with your book idea and you could probably pull it off. But if you do it, I think your conclusions will be wrong. 
Here's the thing. Most people, are fundamentally good. Christian people, jewish people, muslim people, atheist people, even republicans and bass players. The vast majority of them, like 99.999% are fundamentally good people who don't wish bad on anyone are just trying to get from the cab to the curb without anyone dragging their bay or dropping a bomb on their street. But in every one of those groups you will always have a few who, well, kind of suck. 

So you could certainly find cases where certain individual christians treated atheists poorly and write a book about it. But what would that prove? I would strongly suspect that very few if any of those atheists would tell you that the way they were treated by individual christians is what led them to atheism. So in the end what would you have? A book that essentially says certain members of this one group treat members of this other group poorly. No shit, really? So what you're saying is certain people are dickheads? Who ever heard of such a thing? Alert the media at once!!!!

Divide people up into any type of group you like. Race, gender, religion, sexual preference, job, hair color, pant size. Divide them into any sort of group you can imagine and I will guarantee you that you will be able to find individuals in that particular group who treat individuals of the opposing or alternate group poorly simply because they are members of the opposing or alternate group. This is not uncharted territory by any stretch. So what exactly do you hope to accomplish here?

Quote:There was a young women in our Church who believed/was (she was) Bi-sexual, she dressed in that kinda gothic look they go for. 

Ok that right there? That's some god damn offensive shit right there. I'm pretty sure you didn't mean it to be offensive and you just didn't know better. But yeah, that's some offensive shit. That's fuck you, and the fucking horse you rode in on level offensive. So here's some unsolicited advice. Until you take the time and effort to truly know and understand people with sexual preferences that are unlike your own, don't fucking write about them. Don't even mention they exist. Because if you do, you only reveal how ignorant you really are and you offend others in the process. In the meantime here's fucking clue by four for you. Bisexuals don't have a fucking look they go for. They look exactly like you and me. Oh my! How scary! They're exactly like everyone else! Yikes!!! Yeah that. Now fuck off.

Dude, thank you so much. I thought I was the only one on here that thought the OP needed to be more mindful when they were throwing words and descriptions around. And I mean 'dude' as an exclamation, not as a description of your identity which I cannot claim to know nor really care about since it's no one's business but your own.
[/quote]

I don't do political correctness. We could have a long discussion about stereotypes but I don't believe they are negative. Every bi-sexual person I have met goes for that gothic look, some times in neon colors, you know pink hair pink clothes. Its basically exactly what goths look like, but with bright colors. And lots of piercings. As for me saying they believe they are bi/trans well we are both entitled to our opinion. And I don't self censor on stuff like this.

(January 4, 2017 at 4:26 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote:

(January 4, 2017 at 6:52 am)chimp3 Wrote: I am still curious as to why he thinks so.

Christianity is not going to go away. But there is a level of hypocrisy in the church that needs to be fixed. You guys think it comes from Christianity, id believe it comes tribalism. But on either count the outcome is the same, Christians treating you guys like crap, and that needs to be fixed.

What exactly is it about this that you're not getting? You can't 'fix' Christianity without making it NOT Christianity. It's a book about tribal superiority via genocide and slavery. This would be like curing someone of a mental condition by a complete lobotomy, it will lose all semblance of anything it used to be at all. Why not just jettison all the liabilities (basically all of it) and have a much better, less prone-to-failure framework?

(January 3, 2017 at 8:33 pm)Luckie Wrote: Fair enough OP.

Will your story about the dime thrower be in your book? If so, do you understand why she was doing that? Is your book simply to show the problem and not address the reasons for it, pr the solution? If so, I'll leave you to your own prerogative. I see no need to add my experiences as they will have zero bearing in someones decision making when balanced against the 'word of god'.

Yes the story will be in there. I believe it happened due to a sense of tribalism in the church. Maybe even collectiveness. The Bible teaches us to treat others like we want to be treated, something is getting in the way of that.

(January 4, 2017 at 4:26 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote:

(January 4, 2017 at 6:52 am)chimp3 Wrote: I am still curious as to why he thinks so.

Christianity is not going to go away. But there is a level of hypocrisy in the church that needs to be fixed. You guys think it comes from Christianity, id believe it comes tribalism. But on either count the outcome is the same, Christians treating you guys like crap, and that needs to be fixed.

bold mine

It's going away now. You belong to a dying belief. Read the attached Pew Report.

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/11/03/u-s-p...religious/

(January 4, 2017 at 4:30 pm)Astonished Wrote:

(January 4, 2017 at 4:26 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: Christianity is not going to go away. But there is a level of hypocrisy in the church that needs to be fixed. You guys think it comes from Christianity, id believe it comes tribalism. But on either count the outcome is the same, Christians treating you guys like crap, and that needs to be fixed.

What exactly is it about this that you're not getting? You can't 'fix' Christianity without making it NOT Christianity. It's a book about tribal superiority via genocide and slavery. This would be like curing someone of a mental condition by a complete lobotomy, it will lose all semblance of anything it used to be at all. Why not just jettison all the liabilities (basically all of it) and have a much better, less prone-to-failure framework?

I don't agree, thank you for your opinion.

(January 4, 2017 at 4:26 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote: I don't do political correctness. We could have a long discussion about stereotypes but I don't believe they are negative. Every bi-sexual person I have met goes for that gothic look, some times in neon colors, you know pink hair pink clothes. Its basically exactly what goths look like, but with bright colors. And lots of piercings. As for me saying they believe they are bi/trans well we are both entitled to our opinion. And I don't self censor on stuff like this.

In that case, if you ever met me, you'd know one who wasn't at all like that. I am bi and trans. It is my ultimate goal in life to visually blend in with the crowd because my anxiety issues do not allow me to be the center of attention. No dark goth stuff, no crazy colors, no piercings (my ear piercings even closed up, so I need to redo those). At most, I have one easily-hidden tattoo. Think of the every-day casual look and you'll get a good idea of me on most days.

(January 4, 2017 at 4:33 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote:

(January 3, 2017 at 8:33 pm)Luckie Wrote: Fair enough OP.

Will your story about the dime thrower be in your book? If so, do you understand why she was doing that? Is your book simply to show the problem and not address the reasons for it, pr the solution? If so, I'll leave you to your own prerogative. I see no need to add my experiences as they will have zero bearing in someones decision making when balanced against the 'word of god'.

Yes the story will be in there. I believe it happened due to a sense of tribalism in the church. Maybe even collectiveness. The Bible teaches us to treat others like we want to be treated, something is getting in the way of that.

But Christianity is tribalism writ large. Jesus was a tribalist. Paul was a tribalist. God the Father is so tribalistic it wobbles the mind. If you remove tribalism from Christianity, you're left with...well...nothing remotely resembling Christianity.

So, yes...get rid of tribalism in the church.

Boru

(January 1, 2017 at 6:35 am)Dragonspride1995 Wrote:

(December 31, 2016 at 3:26 pm)Macoleco Wrote: Stop it? When has religion/the Church ever stopped attacking its enemies? Lol.

Crusades aside, I do have a argument for that but i'll ignore it. When else has there been a organized Christian attack on others, by a Church?

I remember hearing something about a guy bombing a abortion clinic but thats about it? Oh and I have heard arguments attributing the salem witch trials to Christians. Am I missing any?

Lets see:
The Albigensian crusade
The Teutonic crusade (against the Romuva Balts)
The inquisition
The 30 years war (and other catholic-protestant wars between 1550 and 1700 c.)
The Spanish and Portuguese wars of colonialism (Spain to convert the heathen, Portugal to get at islam by the back door)
The forcible conversions and treatment of nkn christian populations as slaves during the scramble for Africa.

And then you've got stuff like the Opium wars where the idea that christianity and christians were naturally superior lead the British to believe they had a right to subjugate China.

(January 4, 2017 at 4:33 pm)Dragonspride1995 Wrote:

(January 3, 2017 at 8:33 pm)Luckie Wrote: Fair enough OP.

Will your story about the dime thrower be in your book? If so, do you understand why she was doing that? Is your book simply to show the problem and not address the reasons for it, pr the solution? If so, I'll leave you to your own prerogative. I see no need to add my experiences as they will have zero bearing in someones decision making when balanced against the 'word of god'.

Yes the story will be in there. I believe it happened due to a sense of tribalism in the church. Maybe even collectiveness. The Bible teaches us to treat others like we want to be treated, something is getting in the way of that.

A relatively tiny section of the bible suggests this, yes. The rest of the bible does not. So clearly you have selected the part of the book that lines up with how you think things should be. And I agree, they should be that way. You've found ways of justifying to yourself how this is the "real Christianity", and that everyone else is mistaken to be acting on all the other parts which contradict this message.

This is what everyone does, but they don't see it. Religion ends up being a mirror for peoples' morality. There is no correct interpretation. There is just a book, and myths surrounding a book. And objectively, the bible is a morally disgusting book for almost all of it. You have to cherry pick it to come up with anything nice, and even then it's just common sense morality and nothing more.

I'm all for cherry picking. I want people to be nice, however they justify it to themselves. I'm just pointing out that this is what is happening. There is no "real Christianity". In fact, for both Christianity and Islam, the "radicals" are people like yourself who have taken an incredibly tangential view of the bible to come up with something peaceful. Give it to anyone who hasn't been told not to ignore great swathes of the book, while also being told it's the "word of God", and you have a recipe for disaster. You literally can't follow the whole book, because it's a mess of contradictions. So you end up having to make up your own version. It's the "big book of multiple choice". If you focus on the parts you like, you can make it support almost any moral viewpoint.

I've asked before what exactly Christianity offers, morality wise, that isn't completely obvious to any well-balanced atheist. The general reply I got is that there is nothing.

In reality, the religion is the oral myths. The book is just a backdrop. You've been raised with the idea (or figured out) that Christianity is about peace and understanding. And that's that. To you, that is Christianity. It doesn't matter what the book says. If you were raised a long time ago, you'd have been taught it's about hellfire, judgement, war and wiping out people who disagree. Now, you may have been repulsed and rejected this "version", but that would have been the norm. That would be the religion, as it stood then.