(January 17, 2017 at 2:15 pm)abaris Wrote:

(January 17, 2017 at 2:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: We did it because he wanted to be a pilot and it's very hard to start out in the civilian aviation world here in the US, and aviation school is EXTREMELY expensive.

That's the same everywhere. If you haven't got upwards of 200.000 at your disposal, you don't need to apply. Many civilian pilots have had an army career before. At least as far as commercial air liners are concerned.

Yeah same here...

(January 17, 2017 at 2:28 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Oh ofc, you've got your basic, your single engine solo, multiple engine, vfr, ifr, commercial - hell they'll come up with as many products as people will pay for.

Those are ball sack designs? Do they make a low hanging?

(January 17, 2017 at 11:51 am)Crossless1 Wrote: Vets certainly deserve our thanks. But it seems to me that the best way we can thank them is to properly look out for them in the first place. And that means not allowing ourselves to be led into questionable wars of choice; not sending young men into combat with inadequate armor; not short-changing their families who struggle to hold things together in their absence; and not just paying lip service to the services and care they need when they return home.

God: this^ X 100. 

I have a friend who's a lifer, and we keep in touch. He's been to Iraq and Afghanistan multiple times. The idea that he and other soldiers are sent to fight for anything less than an absolutely necessary reason infuriates me. And for that I'm a "libtard."

Fucking assholes. My friend's been wounded in combat, but his real damage is emotional. He's a normal, stable guy until he gets too drunk and calls me. It's so fucked up, and I feel so horrible for him, and it makes me so angry. Yet, there are conservative internet fire teams who just can't wait for any American but them to go kick some ass somewhere. 

I believe so firmly that we need a peace time draft. Iraq either wouldn't have happened or it would've been done "right." Our army functions like a private goddamn toy for powerful hawks to play with while at the same time appeasing their drooling constituent's need to boost their self-esteem off of something they're not willing to do.

Conservatives often strike me as bereft of the knowledge of the depth of human suffering. And I think it's because as a whole, Americans are so well shielded from it. There is no one in living memory who's seen an American city utterly leveled by a foreign army. Americans have never heard air ride sirens go off in the middle of the night. We've never been starved and murdered en masse. Not since the mid 19th century have American civilians been herded from their homes and put into the camps* by foreign soldiers---and even then, those soldiers still spoke the same language. How terrifying must it be for those whose entire family is suddenly put at the complete mercy of a group of foreign soldiers? 

At bottom, they don't seem to get that other people exist. I don't know how else to put it. 

*I didn't forget about the WW2 Japanese internment camps; it's just outside the scope of my rant.

(January 17, 2017 at 9:49 pm)Opoponax Wrote: Conservatives often strike me as bereft of the knowledge of the depth of human suffering.

I can tell you the vast majority of military members and their families are, themselves, conservatives.

They say the Air Force is the branch with the most liberals. Which is crazy, because even here it's rare to find one. Off the top of my head, I can think of like 3 out of everyone I know. My husband says there are always a ton of liberal jokes going around at his work. Especially around the time of the election.

Quote:I believe so firmly that we need a peace time draft. Iraq either wouldn't have happened or it would've been done "right."

You mean like Vietnam was "done right?"

(January 18, 2017 at 1:11 pm)Minimalist Wrote: You mean like Vietnam was "done right?"

He's got a point though. Vietnam came to an end because people took the streets. Otherwise it's like the old Kinks song.

Give the scum a gun and make the bugger fight
And be sure to have deserters shot on sight
If he dies we'll send a medal to his wife

You're easy prey for the support the troops crowd, if you or your offspring aren't on the receiving end. The guys back in the early 70ies knew full well that the best way to support the troops is a ticket home.

The Vietnam war was incredibly terrible, for everyone involved. The soldiers who came back were treated like crap, and because the leaders of our country were being super politically correct about the war (to save their own popularity), not only did we lose, but innocent people are still suffering the consequences of it.

Agent orange was used to kill off the forest so that we could better see our targets so that we could be sure to only shoot the enemies who were actually in a particular area, doing a particular thing. As a result, many little children are still being born with birth defects associated with agent orange. It's truly horrendous: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...fects.html

I don't know enough about the Vietnam war to know whether it was a just war on our part or not, whether we should have gone to war with them at all. But I do know that the "best" war is a swift one. Trying to be too politically correct during a war only ends up making it take longer and takes more innocent lives with it. Either we go to war all out, or we don't go to war at all, imho.

...What exactly does "going all out" mean for a war?

(January 18, 2017 at 2:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't know enough about the Vietnam war to know whether it was a just war on our part or not, whether we should have gone to war with them at all. But I do know that the "best" war is a swift one. Trying to be too politically correct during a war only ends up making it take longer and takes more innocent lives with it. Either we go to war all out, or we don't go to war at all, imho.

It wasn't a just war. It was the West mingling in the affairs of a foreign country by supporting one dictatorship against the other. One capitalist, the other one communist. And all because the post war aera didn't see fit to hand back Vietnam back to the Vietnamese instead of reinstating the French colonial regime. The fight against them was but one of the reasons why Ho Chi Minh rose up to be something like a folk hero. The other one being that he already had led the fight against the Japanese during the war.

(January 18, 2017 at 2:10 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: ...What exactly does "going all out" mean for a war?

Not trying to be too politically correct about it. For example, pilots flying overhead would see the enemy, but because they were in a particular location or weren't particularly doing anything threatening, they weren't allowed to target them.