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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 4:03 pm
(This post was last modified: February 9, 2017 at 4:13 pm by c172.
Edit Reason: repunctuation of sentence.
)
I would support volunteering as an outcome required for high school graduation. This is true in some schools already, but I'd support the education department mandating it. But as an adult, no.
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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 7:15 pm
(This post was last modified: February 9, 2017 at 7:45 pm by Athene.)
Not if it's mandatory.
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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 8:57 pm
(February 9, 2017 at 1:42 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (February 9, 2017 at 1:34 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I think there are a lot of areas of the federal government that could use some serious funding reductions.
A conversation that could be had even if we had a national service.
Quote:And yes, there are some federal programs that we rely on for this or that service, that aren't being defunded at the moment, without having compulsory service to keep them going. And I'm sorry, I don't find a 'bottleneck' in environmental cases a valid argument for compulsory (I might even call it coercive) work.
In and of itself, no, but I could repeat the example in any area of federal service...which is the point.
Quote:The solution for not having enough manpower isn't coercing people to become part of the workforce.
Now we're moving retrograde. You just called the offer "too good to pass up", but now we're back to coercion.
If the financial and labor burden of some project is, perhaps..to great to be born equitably (as it may be in the case of a national healthcare system, for xample) then one way to reduce that burden is to employ the populace at a reduced rate with additional benefits to sweeten the pot. Soldiers don't get payed minimum wage or overtime. I made 900$ a month when I joined.....and I often found myself working 16-20 hour days with no time off for months on end, lol. Work out that math...and while we're both reveling in the unfairness of it, understand that this -is- what allows us to afford our armed forces. Similar arrangements could be made for other branches of other..civil..services.
We may not have the money to pay, but collectively, we have the time to cover it.
The hook of compulsion is that it attaches the amount flowing out to the amount flowing in. If you put in the time, you get to extract the benfit..if you don;t..well, we might not be able to afford it, bu assuming we could, why should we extend the benefit to you rather than increasing the benefit for those who did put in the time that created it in the first place? Assuming we did..for whatever reason, extend it to you anyway, wouldn't more people supplying more labor have the effect of increasing the benefit available for extraction by all, in any case?
I think the term you're looking for is "sweat equity". So far as you've laid out your case, I don't see offering benefits as coercion, myself. I mean, I didn't have VA healthcare before I enlisted. I earnt that, like you, by being underpaid, underfed, and overworked.
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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 9:22 pm
Definitely not if compulsory! That would amount to four wasted years that a motivated individual could make better use of. The dullards would get a cot and three squares while the smart ones could be doing some thing useful for society. Fucking Commies!
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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 9:29 pm
(This post was last modified: February 9, 2017 at 9:31 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 9, 2017 at 9:22 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Definitely not if compulsory! That would amount to four wasted years that a motivated individual could make better use of. I don't know, plenty of americans aren't burning barns down with their greatness between 18 and 22, nevertheless, say it was 18 months, a year and a half? What else would they be doing, productively...and is there something unproductive about supporting federal services and getting job experience while doing so?
Quote:The dullards would get a cot and three squares while the smart ones could be doing some thing useful for society. Fucking Commies!
Making sure the sewers remain functional is, arguably, more important to society as a whole than making sure someones pc is functional. The "smart ones" often overestimate their importance. Not an issue for a national service anyway, since they'd need ditch diggers -and- tech support.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 9:42 pm
(February 9, 2017 at 9:29 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (February 9, 2017 at 9:22 pm)chimp3 Wrote: Definitely not if compulsory! That would amount to four wasted years that a motivated individual could make better use of. I don't know, plenty of americans aren't burning barns down with their greatness between 18 and 22, nevertheless, say it was 18 months, a year and a half? What else would they be doing, productively...and is there something unproductive about supporting federal services and getting job experience while doing so?
Quote:The dullards would get a cot and three squares while the smart ones could be doing some thing useful for society. Fucking Commies!
Making sure the sewers remain functional is, arguably, more important to society as a whole than making sure someones pc is functional. The "smart ones" often overestimate their importance. Not an issue for a national service anyway, since they'd need ditch diggers -and- tech support. I don't want my tax dollars paying for people standing around learning a trade. Maintaining sewers is actually a craft best left to professionals. Ever have your neighbors shit back up into your bath tub?
Also, who designates what job you would learn? A fucking federal guidance counselor? I had some great teachers , but I never had a guidance counselor worth a shit.
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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 10:34 pm
All of those professionals started out as "people standing around learning a trade".
As to who designates. You, your aptitude, and availability - same way we assign tasks in our service now.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 10:39 pm
(February 9, 2017 at 10:34 pm)Khemikal Wrote: All of those professionals started out as "people standing around learning a trade".
As to who designates. You, your aptitude, and availability - same way we assign tasks in our service now.
What if 1,000,000 want to be tech support and no one wants to fix the sewers?
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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 10:48 pm
Every time I read "National Service" I think Dad's Army.
Dammit that movie is still in my brain!
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RE: National Service
February 9, 2017 at 11:24 pm
(This post was last modified: February 9, 2017 at 11:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 9, 2017 at 10:39 pm)chimp3 Wrote: What if 1,000,000 want to be tech support and no one wants to fix the sewers?
The same thing when everyone wants to be an xray tech and no one wants to be infantry, they're told to pick something else. Thankfully, the federal government has use for more than just tech support and ditch diggers - just as it has use for more than just xray techs and infantry. As to the latter portion specifically, that almost bends belief...no matter how menial or shitty a job may seem to you, somebody out there thinks it's pretty cool. I could have had any job in the service that I wanted, I chose to be a grunt.
This is pretty run of the mill stuff. It's not as if there aren't difficult issues when it comes to the implementation of such a service..howsabout you stop softballing me, eh, lol?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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