Just curious if some of you have any genuine thoughts on this. Other than, "seeing evidence," what are some things that would make you believe in God.

For me, I would be believe in God if I could logically understand why he created a billions of year old Universe with stars, galaxies, blackholes, planets, etc. and all life while seemingly allowing it to look like it all could have happened without a conscious creator.

I ask this question, because for me, I still want to believe in a God, even though I don't. It just baffles me to think that everything just goes back to some form of cosmic luck. So that is why I ask the question, not based on what a religion will tell you about god, but what you'd like god to explain, to you, before you'd believe.

If you do decide to answer, lets just assume that god is any conscious deity. It would not be necessarily, any god that we know of, but rather just a god that you could imagine, knowing what you know. For example, if you're thinking that you'd like God to explain how he could murder millions of humans, including babies and children, in a global deluge, remember that we're not parsing over religious bullshit. We're atheists, we know that if a god exists, he wouldn't do anything illogical. So knowing that, we can openly talk about god in a more open way than any religious zealot ever could, because we truly have the ability to think for ourselves what a logical god figure would be like.

(March 2, 2017 at 2:44 am)Won2blv Wrote: Other than, "seeing evidence," what are some things that would make you believe in God.

Well this is the only thing that comes to mind, so I guess I have nothing to add here. If there is a god who wants me to believe, it's doing a shitty job of providing reasons.

Quote:It just baffles me to think that everything just goes back to some form of cosmic luck.

It's only 'luck' if you believe that they universe exists for the purpose of creating intelligent life (particularly us). The case can pretty convincingly be made that we - meaning 'humanity' - are here because we evolved to fit the conditions. Feynman once pointed out that being amazed at the so-called 'fine tuning' of the universe is a lot like walking into a clothing store and being surprised at all the coats, dresses and trousers for sale.

Bill Bryson makes the following observation: 'Your body contains about 10 quadrillion cells. On and within you are about 100 quadrillion bacteria - in your gut, your mouth, literally swarming over every square micron of you, inside and out. Something like 80% of the biomass of the planet is microbial in nature. This isn't our planet. It belongs to bacteria, and we are only here because they allow us to be. Yet no one ever tries to make the case that the universe is fine tuned for Clostridium perfringens.'

So, what would convince me, apart from physical evidence? An unassailable argument for the existence of God that did not depend on supposition, special pleading, or assertion.

Boru

The question is not answerable in a meaningful way because there is no agreed-upon clear definition of what the word "God" refers to. If you provide one, we can talk.

We, as creative animals have the cognitive ability to conjure up all sorts of weird and wonderful concepts.
Just because we can, doesn't give them any validity....

The god concept is one.
Perfection is another.
As is absolute truth.... We are in no position to understand anything in absolute terms.

(March 2, 2017 at 6:32 pm)ignoramus Wrote: We, as creative animals have the cognitive ability to conjure up all sorts of weird and wonderful concepts.
Just because we can, doesn't give them any validity....

The god concept is one.
Perfection is another.
As is absolute truth.... We are in no position to understand anything in absolute terms.

Absolutely.

I think seeing evidence is the only way for me to ever believe.

But, you never know...

Are you pondering the personal "why" did God create the universe, as in to what purpose?

Ex: Why did my wife and I choose to have children? For our amusement, edification, to instill our values, procreation of the species, or to have someone to pass our gold bullion to?

Or is there a reductionist argument as to why the universe was/is a creation?

Ex: The universe has an observable beginning where time and matter came into existence. The universe appears governed by laws and constants and order not chaos permeates it. Life, consciousness, humanity, nature, etc appear designed. This implies a designer. Thus there must be a designer.

I might if it were anywhere close to being worth my time. It stopped being worth any of my time as a young teen. I've got better things.

If he could prove himself in a way that was satisfying to my intellect, and not just the emotions. Proofs for and against god rely too much on incredulity.