(April 26, 2017 at 7:18 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(April 25, 2017 at 8:46 pm)Crunchy Wrote:  

Haaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahah:   Thanks for the laugh!

Nervous laugh; I assume?
Because of a forum debate?

Quote:Even though you won't answer my question, I'll answer yours.

My mind did not go to pedophelia, Muhammeds did as did the minds of the many Clerics and Imams who have interpreted the Quran in this way. It's not my interpretation that is the issue, it's theirs. It is irresponsible to deny the fact that child brides is an issue among Muslims and that this cultural problem stems from religious belief.

 
So once again (and this time it involves your ignoring of the child bride problem)

You see, the bold line in the quote is one track from the broken record.

Pedophilia exists in many cultures; even today. Take Japan for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_righ...Pedophilia

Pedophilia is a wrong thing only in this era. Back in the day, humans worldwide practiced the sickness, and gave allowance for it to be carved into the culture.
Islam demands the testimony of both parties in marriage. Kids' testimony is not legal. Case closed.

Quote:Sura 24, Page 354, The Quran:
( 33 )   But let them who find not [the means for] marriage abstain [from sexual relations] until Allah enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess - then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And do not compel your girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.

The verse stated it explicitly. Muslim pedophiles lie about it; just like you lie about it. Case closed.

Mohammed is not responsible for the acts of these Imams. If that's a legal accusation, then we should name all Germans nazies , and all Americans as prosecutes of native Americans. Aren't you following the same footsteps of Shiites extremists, and Sunni extremists, who hate dead people and load the living for the opinions of the dead; load the dead for the mistakes of the living?

Quote:How can you give your approval and support to so may evil ideas? Do you think that just redacting them from your mind somehow makes the problems disappear from the world outside your mind?

Should we play a romantic right-wing anti-immigration anthem in the background?

I answered you before; but I will quote this verse because I didn't; I believe it's very obvious:

This verse:

Sura 2, Page 42, The Quran
( 256 )   There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Child brides do exist as a religious meme in lots of history worldwide in antiquity, and I did mention that Even here in the Americas, North and South America the age of consent varies. That still does not excuse it. More and more of western society is saying no to that kind of thing and demanding that consent be more along the lines towards 18 years of age. Teens and pre teens should not be getting married. Especially not young girls to old men. 

"Other people do it too", is not an excuse. they shouldn't be doing it either. Mormon Latter Day Saint leader Warren Jeffs tried that shit with his followers and got arrested for it, here in America. Girls worldwide should not be told by men of any religion whom to marry and should not be forced to marry and also should not be forced into sex trafficking FOR ANY RESON including for religious reasons.

I also find Jewish baby genital mutilation for boys equally as sick as female genital mutilation when Christians or Muslims in Africa do it. Adults should allow kids to grow up, and guide them, not indoctrinate them. Adults should focus on educating their kids, not treating them like property. You educate kids, you don't train them like a circus animal or treat them like livestock. I could give a shit less which religion is justifying what. Not just you, but any, including Jews and Christians and Buddhist and Hindus. Kids are not property and girls are not property.

Quote:AtlasS33 Wrote:
I answered you before; but I will quote this verse because I didn't; I believe it's very obvious:

No you have not answered. I'm asking how you justify the evil in the Quran. 
Just like the first time you ignored the question, and instead cherry picked something nice and pretended there are no vile ideas in the Quran. What you do is either ignore or perform a song and dance concerning all the evil and vile ideas in the Quran. 

You're like a nazi who thinks Hitler was great because he loved animals and built beautiful roads and turned the economy around while ignoring or justifying his evils.

It's a kind of evil itself to feel all cozy and warm reading a cute verse from the Quran while ignoring the one next to it calling for wife beatings or the rape of a captive female.

Crunchy, your interpretation of my statement is so wrong that I despair that it's even possible for you to understand my position. Clearly I don't have the capacity to express myself in a way that reaches you. I certainly don't have the patience. That's on me, but I don't have the energy or fortitude to keep hitting my head against this particular brick wall. You can take that as a victory, if you like.

(April 27, 2017 at 8:49 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Crunchy, your interpretation of my statement is so wrong that I despair that it's even possible for you to understand my position. Clearly I don't have the capacity to express myself in a way that reaches you. I certainly don't have the patience. That's on me, but I don't have the energy or fortitude to keep hitting my head against this particular brick wall. You can take that as a victory, if you like.

It is sad so many humans worldwide think naked assertions that amount to "I really like what I believe" constitute a "victory" because they point to others who buy the same claims.

This group think is why it should not surprise anyone that if in the future Star Wars or Star Trek or Harry Potter got twisted and turned into a religion. 

It bothers most humans of all labels whom mostly get handed their beliefs down from their parents, when you point out that our species is older than any city or nation and written language. It bothers them when you point out that other life in our evolution is far older. It bothers them that our planet, sun and solar system is far older. It bothers them when you point out the age of the universe. Most humans desperately want to see themselves as the center of the planet and universe and science is running away from the claim of a human centered cosmos.

It shouldn't bother them, but it does, because they simply don't understand that their false perceptions are merely a reflection of their own evolutionary drive to continue.

(April 26, 2017 at 7:40 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Child brides do exist as a religious meme in lots of history worldwide in antiquity, and I did mention that Even here in the Americas, North and South America the age of consent varies. That still does not excuse it. More and more of western society is saying no to that kind of thing and demanding that consent be more along the lines towards 18 years of age. Teens and pre teens should not be getting married. Especially not young girls to old men. 

"Other people do it too", is not an excuse. they shouldn't be doing it either. Mormon Latter Day Saint leader Warren Jeffs tried that shit with his followers and got arrested for it, here in America. Girls worldwide should not be told by men of any religion whom to marry and should not be forced to marry and also should not be forced into sex trafficking FOR ANY RESON including for religious reasons.

I also find Jewish baby genital mutilation for boys equally as sick as female genital mutilation when Christians or Muslims in Africa do it. Adults should allow kids to grow up, and guide them, not indoctrinate them. Adults should focus on educating their kids, not treating them like property. You educate kids, you don't train them like a circus animal or treat them like livestock. I could give a shit less which religion is justifying what. Not just you, but any, including Jews and Christians and Buddhist and Hindus. Kids are not property and girls are not property.

The reference to other people is more of an explanation than a justification. 
It's a widespread act; moreover it's debatable to the core when we speak about the Quran.

Your only way to marry to a child if you're a Muslim, is to use the Hadith. Then the doors to pedophilia will open up.
Use the Quran alone, and you'll be faced with the issue of different opinions and lack of evidence. But use the Hadith; bingo: you will be able to marry kids in no time.

---

(April 26, 2017 at 7:44 pm)Crunchy Wrote:

Quote:AtlasS33 Wrote:
I answered you before; but I will quote this verse because I didn't; I believe it's very obvious:

No you have not answered. I'm asking how you justify the evil in the Quran. 
Just like the first time you ignored the question, and instead cherry picked something nice and pretended there are no vile ideas in the Quran. What you do is either ignore or perform a song and dance concerning all the evil and vile ideas in the Quran. 

You're like a nazi who thinks Hitler was great because he loved animals and built beautiful roads and turned the economy around while ignoring or justifying his evils.

It's a kind of evil itself to feel all cozy and warm reading a cute verse from the Quran while ignoring the one next to it calling for wife beatings or the rape of a captive female.

Ok, I'm a nazi..
You're a...Potato !
Potato rhymes with Tomato..What a A-Ho!

"Silent E"..he he

(April 27, 2017 at 10:20 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(April 26, 2017 at 7:40 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Child brides do exist as a religious meme in lots of history worldwide in antiquity, and I did mention that Even here in the Americas, North and South America the age of consent varies. That still does not excuse it. More and more of western society is saying no to that kind of thing and demanding that consent be more along the lines towards 18 years of age. Teens and pre teens should not be getting married. Especially not young girls to old men. 

"Other people do it too", is not an excuse. they shouldn't be doing it either. Mormon Latter Day Saint leader Warren Jeffs tried that shit with his followers and got arrested for it, here in America. Girls worldwide should not be told by men of any religion whom to marry and should not be forced to marry and also should not be forced into sex trafficking FOR ANY RESON including for religious reasons.

I also find Jewish baby genital mutilation for boys equally as sick as female genital mutilation when Christians or Muslims in Africa do it. Adults should allow kids to grow up, and guide them, not indoctrinate them. Adults should focus on educating their kids, not treating them like property. You educate kids, you don't train them like a circus animal or treat them like livestock. I could give a shit less which religion is justifying what. Not just you, but any, including Jews and Christians and Buddhist and Hindus. Kids are not property and girls are not property.

The reference to other people is more of an explanation than a justification. 
It's a widespread act; moreover it's debatable to the core when we speak about the Quran.

Your only way to marry to a child if you're a Muslim, is to use the Hadith. Then the doors to pedophilia will open up.
Use the Quran alone, and you'll be faced with the issue of different opinions and lack of evidence. But use the Hadith; bingo: you will be able to marry kids in no time.

---

(April 26, 2017 at 7:44 pm)Crunchy Wrote: No you have not answered. I'm asking how you justify the evil in the Quran. 
Just like the first time you ignored the question, and instead cherry picked something nice and pretended there are no vile ideas in the Quran. What you do is either ignore or perform a song and dance concerning all the evil and vile ideas in the Quran. 

You're like a nazi who thinks Hitler was great because he loved animals and built beautiful roads and turned the economy around while ignoring or justifying his evils.

It's a kind of evil itself to feel all cozy and warm reading a cute verse from the Quran while ignoring the one next to it calling for wife beatings or the rape of a captive female.

Ok, I'm a nazi..
You're a...Potato !
Potato rhymes with Tomato..What a A-Ho!

"Silent E"..he he

No Atlas, I know you truly believe and want to believe the Quran has all the answers to human morality, but no sorry, if it were a cure there wouldn't be those actions happening at all. I am being fair to you because I point out that morality isn't handed down to any club by any holy person of any holy writing. All nations have hospitals and prisons. And sexual abuse of boys and girls and assault on women IS a worldwide thing in all religions to some degree.

That says to me, our behaviors are in us. I am sure you don't like other Muslims doing those things, I wish they wouldn't either. But that is the same argument I get from every other religion, "They aren't true..... " or "They aren't interpreting it right".

Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists and Jews and Christians and even all the other religions are all made up of humans and if everyone can admit there is good and bad in every single religion, then maybe humans simply need to admit the behaviors are in our genes, upbringing and mental state.

And I also would say the same to my fellow atheists. Not even the word "atheist" has the magic power to make the holder of that position only do good.

We see in other species the same group dynamics in both cooperation, compassion and force and cruelty within the group and against other rival groups.

There is no cosmic hero helping us. If humans want to reduce harm then it is in our hands, no super hero is helping us.

(April 27, 2017 at 8:49 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Crunchy, your interpretation of my statement is so wrong that I despair that it's even possible for you to understand my position. Clearly I don't have the capacity to express myself in a way that reaches you. I certainly don't have the patience. That's on me, but I don't have the energy or fortitude to keep hitting my head against this particular brick wall. You can take that as a victory, if you like.

If I've misrepresented you I apologize. I go to great lengths to make sure I don't label people's views incorrectly. I don't want to be tilting at windmills.
However, after re reading your posts I don't see what I've got wrong. You specifically said that religions are the people who believe them. You specifically said that the text can be made to say anything. And these views were expressed after you had been arguing in defense of the Quran not endorsing child brides. As though an illiterate sex slave owner even knew what amenorrhea was or more likely, would have even cared.

You seem like a reasonable dude and I'm not here to pick any fights and certainly not to win anything. But I do express my views and defend them which I think is the purpose of these forums.

(April 27, 2017 at 12:49 pm)Crunchy Wrote:

(April 27, 2017 at 8:49 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Crunchy, your interpretation of my statement is so wrong that I despair that it's even possible for you to understand my position. Clearly I don't have the capacity to express myself in a way that reaches you. I certainly don't have the patience. That's on me, but I don't have the energy or fortitude to keep hitting my head against this particular brick wall. You can take that as a victory, if you like.

If I've misrepresented you I apologize. I go to great lengths to make sure I don't label people's views incorrectly. I don't want to be tilting at windmills.
However, after re reading your posts I don't see what I've got wrong. You specifically said that religions are the people who believe them. You specifically said that the text can be made to say anything. And these views were expressed after you had been arguing in defense of the Quran not endorsing child brides. As though an illiterate sex slave owner even knew what amenorrhea was or more likely, would have even cared.

You seem like a reasonable dude and I'm not here to pick any fights and certainly not to win anything. But I do express my views and defend them which I think is the purpose of these forums.

Quote:However, after re reading your posts I don't see what I've got wrong. You specifically said that religions are the people who believe them. You specifically said that the text can be made to say anything. And these views were expressed after you had been arguing in defense of the Quran not endorsing child brides. As though an illiterate sex slave owner even knew what amenorrhea was or more likely, would have even cared.

"wouldn't it ?"

Or was it

"wooden tit"

...A war can start because of that; you know. It won't be against Windmills like the famous novel; though!

So yeah, words can be whatever you want them to be..they call the meaning book "a dictionary"; I advice you to buy one.