We need some variation on a 'Darwin Award' to recognize faiths that really have gone to that extreme extreme of self-falsifying their own beliefs, and doing so so spectacularly that atheists the world over can only stop and gape at how dumb dumb dumb they are for doing our work for us.

I've got no problem criticizing Islam. But the fact is that there are many, many bigots who will use that critique.

Doesn't mean the religion shouldn't be criticized, but it does mean that when I read or hear a critique of it, I look to ensure that it is well-informed, or if it's just a smoke-screen for the bigotry of the critic.

(May 1, 2017 at 1:07 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I've got no problem criticizing Islam. But the fact is that there are many, many bigots who will use that critique.

Doesn't mean the religion shouldn't be criticized, but it does mean that when I read or hear a critique of it, I look to ensure that it is well-informed, or if it's just a smoke-screen for the bigotry of the critic.

I think this is a sensible approach that is often ignored.

Thump is not always sensible. He hates me.

(May 1, 2017 at 11:18 am)vorlon13 Wrote: We need some variation on a 'Darwin Award' to recognize faiths that really have gone to that extreme extreme of self-falsifying their own beliefs, and doing so so spectacularly that atheists the world over can only stop and gape at how dumb dumb dumb they are for doing our work for us.

Well, in a variation of that theme I recall reading about a religious group that taught abstinence to all their followers... They died out.
I wonder how many other such memes are "suicidal" to the religion.

(May 1, 2017 at 2:57 pm)Crunchy Wrote:

(May 1, 2017 at 1:07 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I've got no problem criticizing Islam. But the fact is that there are many, many bigots who will use that critique.

Doesn't mean the religion shouldn't be criticized, but it does mean that when I read or hear a critique of it, I look to ensure that it is well-informed, or if it's just a smoke-screen for the bigotry of the critic.

I think this is a sensible approach that is often ignored.

it is, sometimes. There are indeed knee-jerk respondents.

But there are also people who lay the PC accusation whenever someone points out bigotry.

That sword cuts both ways.

There's a "No true Scotsman" fallacy here, maybe. All religions are a potential tool for ignorance, hatred and violence-- even Buddhism.

I think if I could choose my favorite sects of each religion, I'd find small pockets of sanity and a real sense of responsibility to the Earth and to fellow man, and I'd say that to the degree those values stem from people's religious beliefs, the religions are good. If I could find a Christian who said, "Because we are all God's people, I will extend goodwill to every person. Because the Earth is a gift from God, I will work to protect it, and to prevent others from damaging it," I'd respect that. Now, finding an actual Christian who will actually live according to ideas like that is going to be pretty hard.

(May 1, 2017 at 4:48 pm)bennyboy Wrote: There's a "No true Scotsman" fallacy here, maybe.  All religions are a potential tool for ignorance, hatred and violence-- even Buddhism.

I think if I could choose my favorite sects of each religion, I'd find small pockets of sanity and a real sense of responsibility to the Earth and to fellow man, and I'd say that to the degree those values stem from people's religious beliefs, the religions are good.  If I could find a Christian who said, "Because we are all God's people, I will extend goodwill to every person.  Because the Earth is a gift from God, I will work to protect it, and to prevent others from damaging it," I'd respect that.  Now, finding an actual Christian who will actually live according to ideas like that is going to be pretty hard.

Add "Sunni/Shiite Muslim"; too.

but if those 'pockets of sanity' are actually apostates of their own professed religion . . .

See the problem ?

(May 1, 2017 at 3:07 pm)Crunchy Wrote:

(May 1, 2017 at 11:18 am)vorlon13 Wrote: We need some variation on a 'Darwin Award' to recognize faiths that really have gone to that extreme extreme of self-falsifying their own beliefs, and doing so so spectacularly that atheists the world over can only stop and gape at how dumb dumb dumb they are for doing our work for us.

Well, in a variation of that theme I recall reading about a religious group that taught abstinence to all their followers... They died out.
I wonder how many other such memes are "suicidal" to the religion.

And we have a nominee, and very good on at that !!