(May 10, 2017 at 11:07 am)vorlon13 Wrote: Perhaps God's Perfect Plan has fractal properties allowing for a diffusion of cause/effect parameters that would allow correlated dispersal along the time line from a user interface and yet maintain the preordained perfect outcome ??

Well, yeah. Duh.

Quote:To pray is found in luke 11 forward. (The Lord's prayer) this prayer is about acknowledging God and asking God to change our will to His will.

So your 'god' is so fucking stupid that he has to be told the same shit over and over?  Does he have a short attention span?  If allah was real I imagine he'd be real pissed at looking down and seeing 5 billion asses stuck in his face murmuring the same shit endlessly. 

You people invent gods who are suspiciously 'human.'

(May 10, 2017 at 10:53 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(May 9, 2017 at 1:22 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: bold mine

I'm really confused. First it does not micro manage or predict the future and lets nature take it's course, then in your scenario it micro manages, the future is known, and there is a predetermined outcome.  

If it already knows that a single person will pray and what will be prayed for and how the prayer will be answered (micro manage a detail of one persons life), the person has no free will. They are simply following a predetermined path.

I don't see how that's contrary to free will. My belief is that God knows what will happen because he can see all of time happening all at once, not because He is controlling everything that is happening. We still choose our actions 100%. He just knows what those actions will be because He is seeing us do it, not because He controls what we do.

Doesn't God control everything though?
I think that's a part of being omnipotent.

I will ask my pastor the question as another person here suggested. Still uncertain about question in first post.

(May 10, 2017 at 11:26 am)MellisaClarke Wrote:

(May 10, 2017 at 10:53 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't see how that's contrary to free will. My belief is that God knows what will happen because he can see all of time happening all at once, not because He is controlling everything that is happening. We still choose our actions 100%. He just knows what those actions will be because He is seeing us do it, not because He controls what we do.

Doesn't God control everything though?

As I explained in my first response to you, no. Lol. 

At least that's not my belief, though I could be wrong.

(May 10, 2017 at 11:28 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(May 10, 2017 at 11:26 am)MellisaClarke Wrote: Doesn't God control everything though?

As I explained in my first response to you, no. Lol. 

At least that's not my belief, though I could be wrong.

Doesn't being omnipotent mean ultimate control or ultimate power?

Sometimes I really do wonder why terrible things really happen. But God's mind must really be complex and His mind escapes me.

(May 10, 2017 at 11:24 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:To pray is found in luke 11 forward. (The Lord's prayer) this prayer is about acknowledging God and asking God to change our will to His will.

So your 'god' is so fucking stupid that he has to be told the same shit over and over?  Does he have a short attention span?  If allah was real I imagine he'd be real pissed at looking down and seeing 5 billion asses stuck in his face murmuring the same shit endlessly. 

You people invent gods who are suspiciously 'human.'

As a god, I could find favor with half of those asses . . . .

(May 10, 2017 at 11:26 am)MellisaClarke Wrote: I think that's a part of being omnipotent.

I will ask my pastor the question as another person here suggested. Still uncertain about question in first post.

Being omnipotent means He has the power to control everything (within His own nature), but that doesn't mean He does. He chose to give us free will and let us make our own choices. He chose to create a natural world where things happen as they will.

Yes, ask your pastor.

---

(May 10, 2017 at 11:30 am)MellisaClarke Wrote: Sometimes I really do wonder why terrible things really happen. But God's mind must really be complex and His mind escapes me.

One way or another, things will all work out in the big picture. We don't know how, but we do know that God would never have created the universe if it wasn't all meant to be for ultimate good in the end.

and as part of His control of everything he allows CL the belief she has free will regardless

(May 10, 2017 at 11:33 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(May 10, 2017 at 11:26 am)MellisaClarke Wrote: I think that's a part of being omnipotent.

I will ask my pastor the question as another person here suggested. Still uncertain about question in first post.

Being omnipotent means He has the power to control everything (within His own nature), but that doesn't mean He does. He chose to give us free will and let us make our own choices. He chose to create a natural world where things happen as they will.  

Yes, ask your pastor.

I don't want to think of it like that.
What if police officers and judges ignored murderous criminals, and allowed things to proceed as they were?

I believe God's plan is far deeper than the scenario you lay out.

(May 10, 2017 at 11:37 am)MellisaClarke Wrote: What if police officers ignored murderous criminals, and allowed things to proceed as they were?

Indeed.

Quote:“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
~ Epicurus