My other-half's kid sister was at the concert with her best friend. We didn't hear from them until nearly half 11, nearly home and unharmed.

She couldn't see the explosion; she was on the other side of the arena, fortunately. She heard the bang and felt the ground shake. She says she knew immediately what was going on but it wasn't until the people started pouring back in the other way, towards her exits that she really started panicking. Her entire area became a mass of frightened, screaming children, clambering over each other to get out. Truly terrifying and if you've seen any of the video, with adults pushing past children, you've got a good idea of the chaos. She says that she couldn't get Paris out of her mind and she was convinced that gun-men were going to come in and start shooting people. Her and her friend stayed together and just kept pushing, eventually making it to an exit.

Her friends parents had dropped them off, gone off round Manchester for an hour or so and had parked up just 15 minutes before the incident. They'd grabbed a McDonalds and had sat in the car to watch for the girls. They heard the explosion which shook the car. It took them a moment to work out what was going on but then the dad sprang in to action, getting as close to the exits as he could to watch for the girls, not knowing which way they would come out. He spotted them almost as soon as they made it through the gates, in spite of the sea of terrified people pouring out, ran over and literally hauled them back to the car. The mum already had it running and as soon as everyone was in, she sped off in fear of something else happening. It took quite some time to calm the girls but eventually kid sister was on the phone to her mum, letting her know she was safe.

It was her first concert, unsupervised, at 14. Her and her bestie off to have times you want to remember for the rest of your life. She'll never forget this.

(May 22, 2017 at 9:33 pm)Isis Wrote:

(May 22, 2017 at 9:17 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Identify all those who support the attacker or were involved and give each a free rope in their cell after they've given up all information you can get out of them.

Zero tolerance for scum who would do this.

Send them to Guantanamo Bay.

I am sure our American friends could accommodate them.

No and bullshit. Gitmo is a bullshit relic of WW2 internment. The fuckface who did this first off, blew himself up. I do agree with going after those who helped him, but why the fuck have courts in the west at all if all we are going to do is hold people forever without due process? 

Does anyone understand that is the difference between the west and the east? When you advocate containment without trial you are giving them a war when really all they are are mass murders, no different than Roof. If you are willing to give Roof a trial, then everyone gets one. 

I agree with going after violent people, but lets not turn these sick fucks into heros by treating them like soldiers, they are not soldiers, they are mass murderers. They are fucking common criminals.

(May 23, 2017 at 7:06 am)StuW Wrote:

No sorry, if you want to equate anyone to national hyper nationalism, you can look to the White House. I agree, long term those sickos wont win by blowing themselves up. The west is too big, not even our enemies Russia or China want their violence spreading. But equating those who do these horrible things to being an official army when they are nothing but a street gang hiding behind religion, is not the way to do it.

The assholes who do this want to be viewed as heros in a war. Lets not give them that delusion. They are delusional and indoctrinated and gangs. I think we should view them as criminals, not soldiers.

I didn't read the post as anything like you describe. I read it as we are made of stronger stuff than you and your pathetic attempt so drive fear into us. Where you get them being an implied army from the tweet?!

(May 23, 2017 at 7:18 am)StuW Wrote: I didn't read the post as anything like you describe.  I read it as we are made of stronger stuff than you and your pathetic attempt so drive fear into us.  Where you get them being an implied army from the tweet?!

Luftwaffe was the government paid air force of WW2 Germany, that is an armed force officially sanctioned and paid for by the Nazi government. Don't blame me for what I didn't type or tweet.

He wasn't comparing the protagonists he was comparing the act, at least that's how i see it.

God says in the Quran:

Quote:Sura 5, page 122, The Quran:
( 87 )   O you who have believed, do not prohibit the good things which Allah has made lawful to you and do not transgress. Indeed, Allah does not like transgressors.

He also says:

Quote:Sura 25, page 366, The Quran:
 68 )   And those who do not invoke with Allah another deity or kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed], except by right, and do not commit unlawful sexual intercourse. And whoever should do that will meet a penalty.
( 69 )   Multiplied for him is the punishment on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein humiliated -

The killer just showed the amount of psychological sickness he suffers from. 
But I never believe these attacks are individual acts too; this is organised attacks to make Europeans hate Muslims more and more.

Nothing will succeed in picturing us like terrorist haters, nothing will justify this crime

(May 23, 2017 at 6:53 am)Brian37 Wrote: No and bullshit. Gitmo is a bullshit relic of WW2 internment. The fuckface who did this first off, blew himself up. I do agree with going after those who helped him, but why the fuck have courts in the west at all if all we are going to do is hold people forever without due process? 

Does anyone understand that is the difference between the west and the east? When you advocate containment without trial you are giving them a war when really all they are are mass murders, no different than Roof. If you are willing to give Roof a trial, then everyone gets one. 

I agree with going after violent people, but lets not turn these sick fucks into heros by treating them like soldiers, they are not soldiers, they are mass murderers. They are fucking common criminals.

[bold mine]

We didn't know that ten hours ago. I won't even bother arguing with the rest of your post, you won't change my mind and I won't change yours.

(May 23, 2017 at 7:42 am)StuW Wrote: He wasn't comparing the protagonists he was comparing the act, at least that's how i see it.

It does matter. Hitlers gov was official, this was a lone wolf inspired by gang propaganda. Those individuals want to be glorified at a movement level, they should be treated as common street criminals. 

I think we should worry just as much about how much our right wing in the west has used fear of the other scapegoating hyper nationalism, like Trump won using. That is as much toxic talk and dangerous to the long term security of the west, even if Islam didn't exist.

I 100% agree with going after violent individuals and violent sects, but that tweet blurs the line and gives these sickos the platform they don't deserve. 

I get his frustration and anger, I just don't agree with the way he said it. I wouldn't have put it that way.