Hello everyone ,

This is my first thread on the forum, and I hope to get convincing responses to a question I stumbled upon concerning atheism.

Assuming no God can be proven by logic, how can one trust his judgment about religions/existence of god if his mind itself cannot be trusted ? How can I trust any atheist/agnostic's claim that all kinds of proofs that have been given by scholars or philosophers of religion throughout history are false ?

Therefore, rejecting belief is in itself belief that your mind possesses some kind of an absolute power that makes you distinguish between good arguments and fallacies. I don't want to talk about evolution in this thread, but since the brain is the product of random alterations of our genome, how can it be trustworthy ? 

You'll say to me that this power is simply logial reasoning, but, you see, logic is based on axioms, i.e. basic FACTS taken for granted. What are you taking for granted to refute any logical argument whatsoever ? And why do you TRUST your thinking in the first place ?

(June 24, 2017 at 9:10 pm)Parsim0ny Wrote: Hello everyone ,

This is my first thread on the forum, and I hope to get convincing responses to a question I stumbled upon concerning atheism.

Assuming no God can be proven by logic, how can one trust his judgment about religions/existence of god if his mind itself cannot be trusted ? How can I trust any atheist/agnostic's claim that all kinds of proofs that have been given by scholars or philosophers of religion throughout history are false ?

Therefore, rejecting belief is in itself belief that your mind possesses some kind of an absolute power that makes you distinguish between good arguments and fallacies. I don't want to talk about evolution in this thread, but since the brain is the product of random alterations of our genome, how can it be trustworthy ? 

You'll say to me that this power is simply logial reasoning, but, you see, logic is based on axioms, i.e. basic FACTS taken for granted. What are you taking for granted to refute any logical argument whatsoever ? And why do you TRUST your thinking in the first place ?

bold mine

What proofs are you referring to? Would you like to discuss one or two specifically?

My position is that you can't philosophize, argue, or debate a god(s) into existence. That only supports a belief. 

Whose thinking should I trust if not my own? 

Welcome to the forum. Tell us more about yourself when you get a chance.

If that's the case, how can you trust your thinking when it tells you there's a god?

Is atheism self-contradictory?

No.

I don't give a damn about "logic."

There is no tangible evidence for any of the gods invented by the human imagination.

Including yours... which ever it is.

(June 24, 2017 at 9:28 pm)Cyberman Wrote: Is atheism self-contradictory?

No.

Sometimes the simplest answers are the best answers.

I smell a sock. A dirty, dirty sock.

(June 24, 2017 at 9:35 pm)Jesster Wrote:

(June 24, 2017 at 9:28 pm)Cyberman Wrote: Is atheism self-contradictory?

No.

Sometimes the simplest answers are the best answers.

And perfect for the simplest minds.

(June 24, 2017 at 9:20 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: What proofs are you referring to? Would you like to discuss one or two specifically?

I'm referring to all of them. All variants of the cosmological argument, arguments from morality, fine-tuning of the universe, etc. Do you seriously think that all people who simply reject belief studied all of this and came to the conclusion that all of them are absurd ? 

As a Muslim, I also consider that some aspects of the Qur'an are strong arguments, one of them is the fact that it is inimitable ( no human mind can make a similar literary achievement ). The Qur'an repeatedly challenges everyone who reads it to come up with his own impressive Arabic book talking about the universe and human life with comparable eloquence. 

(June 24, 2017 at 9:20 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: My position is that you can't philosophize, argue, or debate a god(s) into existence. That only supports a belief. 

Well, this means that you simply reject the assumptions upon which any argument of god's existence is made. Take the cosmological argument for example, since it is unsound according to you, you boldly reject the causality principle. When I think about every assumption that needs to be taken down/reconsidered to rationalize atheism, there's just too many of them. 

(June 24, 2017 at 9:20 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Whose thinking should I trust if not my own? 

You didn't answer my question, why should you trust your OWN thinking if your brain is simply the product of random changes of your genome during the process of evolution ?

Trusting my brain's judgment about complex philosophical problems -such as God's existence- without any reason is the same as allowing a monkey to perform a cardiac surgery in my chest, and then expect to survive ...

(June 24, 2017 at 9:20 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Welcome to the forum. Tell us more about yourself when you get a chance.

I will. Thank you for responding quickly 

Hi OP.