(July 26, 2017 at 1:25 am)Godscreated Wrote: The sin is against an infinite being (God) and a sin unforgiven is infinite, so therefore the punishment is infinite.

Dead wrong.  The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.

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(July 26, 2017 at 9:37 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

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Some people deserve hell, Astreja.

I say again:  No exceptions.  Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it.  As soon as punishment > crime, the punisher is in the wrong.

(July 26, 2017 at 9:37 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

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(July 26, 2017 at 12:12 am)Kernel Sohcahtoa Wrote: With all due respect, and out of curiosity, is it not logical to focus more on rehabilitation than on torture?

Hell might be the ultimate rehab. There's this verse from the Quran:

Quote:Sura 40, Page 468, The Quran:
( 11 )   They will say, "Our Lord, You made us lifeless twice and gave us life twice, and we have confessed our sins. So is there to an exit any way?"

Dying twice is what I think would work for anybody that ignored seeing the light in this life.
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Astreja

Quote:Astreja Wrote:



I think I see a little further down the road than you think, Atlas.

Nobody deserves hell.  No exceptions.  Not even the worst of the worst in the history of humanity.  Eternal punishment for finite crimes is infinitely unjust, because the punishment is infinitely more than the crime.

I've seen poor people. So poor they used to live with roaches all around their holes -In Egypt; most buildings have doormen. All are poor, and you can see the sick class divisions whenever you enter the building and see the doorman looks down; calling you a "Pasha". and you know deep inside that this man and his family are so smelly and so poor because a mad dictator is controlling the country and robbing the whole cash for himself; instead of spending it like he should on people like the doorman of your building.

Thank God my conditions were much better.
Some people deserve hell; Astreja. No father or mother on the other hand, deserve to work as slaves calling me a "Basha", while sleeping in a bug infested hole below the stairs.

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This is another aspect of ALL religions I despise. It is even if one is unaware, a vile subconscious form of recruitment. Seriously Atlass, if your depressed and a Christian quoted a bible verse and you were unwilling to swallow it, then why do you think it works for you? 

I really hate this shit from a logical standpoint. It really is victimizing someone while they are vulnerable to do what? Gain a recruit. I suffer from depression myself, but in my current lucid state, even given that, selling me a utopia to act as a crutch, isn't solving problems, it is merely replacing one problem with another and only masking the problem.

You are hungry, someone hands you food, so therefore Jesus is the one real and only God? You get saved from drowning so therefore Yahweh is the only real God? Some Hindus dug you out of an earthquake so the Creator God Bhrama is the only real God?

No sorry reality isn't like that. I have depression myself sometimes, and no amount of quoting the Koran or Bible or Torah or Talmud or Vedas or Buddha is going to cause me to think I need any of those things. 

Life does suck sometimes sure, but there is no magic to it good or bad.

(July 26, 2017 at 11:14 am)Cyberman Wrote:

(July 25, 2017 at 7:16 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Some people do deserve hell. They did some nasty, nasty things. Unspeakable harm to many humans.

Wouldn't it be infinitely more just for those people to face the consequences of their actions while they can still care about what happens to them, rather than being taught a lesson they'll never remember?

Also, ought not a truly just god consider wishing infinite torture upon someone to be deserving of hell in itself?

Perhaps punishment is good for the soul?

(July 26, 2017 at 11:14 am)Cyberman Wrote:

(July 25, 2017 at 7:16 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: Some people do deserve hell. They did some nasty, nasty things. Unspeakable harm to many humans.

Wouldn't it be infinitely more just for those people to face the consequences of their actions while they can still care about what happens to them, rather than being taught a lesson they'll never remember?

Also, ought not a truly just god consider wishing infinite torture upon someone to be deserving of hell in itself?

If you took the "accumulation" of different acts into account; it won't be so hard to imagine why the penalty is so long.

https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/world-thirsty

Every drop of water we wasted,  every moment we intentionally ignored the people who die of thirst while we enjoy a lifelong of showers, and wasting cubes of ice in our drinks. Water crisis alone weighs so heavily.
What about the silence of most humans on the terrible wars their countries take?
You can think of so many other scenarios that we as a group took; and they just sucked. Just the accumulation of them acts was enough to kill millions.

I don't think many humans are so innocent. Me included.

(July 26, 2017 at 11:42 am)Whateverist Wrote:

(July 26, 2017 at 11:14 am)Cyberman Wrote: Wouldn't it be infinitely more just for those people to face the consequences of their actions while they can still care about what happens to them, rather than being taught a lesson they'll never remember?

Also, ought not a truly just god consider wishing infinite torture upon someone to be deserving of hell in itself?

Perhaps punishment is good for the soul?

To be fair, even in surrounding and prior polytheism, the idea of divine conquest was worldwide. Back then the mortality rate was much higher and the competition between ruling families was falsely attributed to the will of the spirit/divine/god world. 

Even when you read the ancient Greek play "Antigony" she gets punished for lending aid to the enemy. Back then rival rulers did not bury the dead of the enemy, you didn't give them that dignity. If you kept them as slaves even in polytheism, nobody back then would ever use a slave to build monuments to their rulers or gods.

Rivalries between societies were far more brutal in antiquity. The idea of global diplomacy is a far more recent thing because the world is far smaller now.

(July 26, 2017 at 11:32 am)Astreja Wrote:

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(July 26, 2017 at 9:37 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

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Some people deserve hell, Astreja.

I say again:  No exceptions.  Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it.  As soon as punishment > crime, the punisher is in the wrong.

You introduced that ">". But it doesn't represent the case precisely.
It "burns" inside for a reason. Some acts burn us with invisible fire. Some even kill us. They even diagnosed it and called it "depression".

(July 26, 2017 at 11:42 am)Whateverist Wrote: Perhaps punishment is good for the soul?

As in



you mean?

(July 26, 2017 at 11:57 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(July 26, 2017 at 11:32 am)Astreja Wrote:

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I say again:  No exceptions.  Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it.  As soon as punishment > crime, the punisher is in the wrong.

You introduced that ">". But it doesn't represent the case precisely.
It "burns" inside for a reason. Some acts burn us with invisible fire. Some even kill us. They even diagnosed it and called it "depression".

Please don't insult sufferers of depression, like myself, with childishly ignorant and simplistic shit like that, okay?

(July 26, 2017 at 10:29 am)drfuzzy Wrote: In the thread "Can a Christian Lose His Salvation" this OP was copy-pasted by Jack Russell.  Wyrd of God noted that this is an old xtian trope, and a version is available of Reddit.
"A similar version is  posted on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/religion/commen...t_my_soul/"

Just another made-up christian tall tale that they think might get people running into a church, begging to be brainwashed.  
So no empathy for GoneGuy is necessary.  He's just another lying xtian plagiarist.

So he was committing crimes from the beginning. Called it!

(July 26, 2017 at 12:23 pm)Cyberman Wrote:

(July 26, 2017 at 11:57 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: You introduced that ">". But it doesn't represent the case precisely.
It "burns" inside for a reason. Some acts burn us with invisible fire. Some even kill us. They even diagnosed it and called it "depression".

Please don't insult sufferers of depression, like myself, with childishly ignorant and simplistic shit like that, okay?

Ever read about what M.S does to the nerves?
It is literally your Immune System attacking your Central Nervous System, so it makes the nerves affecting the mood damaged in a way. So it is a kind of life-long chronic fate, with a depression you cannot escape: it has physical reasons; atop of all of that are the psychological reasons that make the condition so grim.

Believe me, I know what depression is. Don't let my young age fool you.