(July 28, 2017 at 8:59 am)Astreja Wrote:

(July 28, 2017 at 2:12 am)Godscreated Wrote: God doesn't have to recreate those things in those who have chosen hell, those memories reside in the soul...

No evidence for souls -- They can't even keep us aware of ourselves when we're in the deep dreamless phase of sleep.  I see no reason whatsoever that they should get better at that particular job when the brain itself has degenerated to the point of non-functionability.

In your mythology, the people condemned by your god are powerless and cannot "choose" to not be tortured.  Your god remains 100% responsible for all pain they may experience, regardless of the feeble excuses you and other believers make to absolve your god of its barbaric and unforgivable behaviour.

You are choosing to worship a being whom you believe allows sentient beings to suffer unimaginable torment for eternity.  Shame on you.

 I've chosen to worship a loving God who offers everyone a release from an eternal hell, if you do not chose it then it is your fault that you suffer eternally. You need to show me Bible verses about the above bold, by me. I have a soul, it is the spiritual part of us through which God communicates with us. You have one too, you've just turned your's off.
God does allow people to suffer eternally because that's what they choose, like I said before if God forced you to become a Christian you would be kicking and screaming all the way to paradise. 

GC

Then I'm better than both you and your fucking god because I would never even THINK to create an eternal torture chamber for ANY FUCKING REASON. I would never be so fucking psychotically insecure as to believe someone not listening to me, especially if it's my own fucking fault, deserves to be punished simply for that. I would never be such a morally demonic piece of shit that I would have the gall to say that someone CHOOSES punishment when the entire dichotomy, believing in nonsense for the worst of reasons or burn in a place I have every reason not to believe even exists, is a fucking joke in the first place. Stick that up your ass, you self-righteous dick. So fucking sick of you trying to take this high-and-might holier-than-thou shit-eating grin position. You're not fucking fooling anyone for a minute.

(July 28, 2017 at 9:37 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

Godscreated Wrote: If you are speaking about doing so after death that will be to late, God didn't offer us salvation just to keep us out of hell. He's whole reason was to reunite us with Him and live the eternal life He desires for us, beginning here and lasting through eternity.
Your opinion of God is your's and a wrong one I might add, I should know I live in that relationship I keep telling you about.

GC

Too bad God never gives you tips on how to post in a way that a reasonable person would find convincing or appealing. If this is you with God on your side, you must be epically  pathetic without him.

Of course it's too late after I'm dead, that's how the scam works: I have to believe you about what will happen to me after I die or I'll be sorry. Once I believe you, you can use that fear to manipulate me. But only an idiot would even bring that up before the person they're talking to believes in the consequence that you're threatening.

I'm not threatening you, I'm telling you what God's plan says. I have no desire to manipulate you nor does any other Christian I know, these things are just poor excuses that you and the others keep repeating, God want accept them and He will show you why in due time.
It's not my posting that's your problem it's your hardened heart that gives you all the problems you encounter.

MisterA Wrote:You convince people of hell AFTER you convince them your religion is true, else they have no reason to believe you and it comes off as a laughably impotent threat. There's certainly no indication that Jesus tried to tell nonbelievers that they were going to hell if they didn't follow him. He had good advice on winning converts, it would be so refreshing to encounter a Christian who used his methods.

Jesus says in Matthew 5:21-22 " You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders shall be liable to judgement.' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgement; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says,'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.

Jesus says in Matthew 5:27-29 "You have heard it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a women with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better to lose one of your members than your whole body be thrown in hell.

Jesus says in Matthew 5:30 "And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Jesus says in Matthew 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

Do I need to go on?

MisterA Wrote:And God allowing me to reevaluate my position after I KNOW he's real would just be too fair and just to be believable as the tyrant described in the Bible. I know that given the choice of God being just or sticking to the Bible, you'll stick with the Bible. After all, how could an edited, translated book millennia old with no original copies surviving that's the product of an iron age oral tradition possibly get anything wrong?

The Bible is the word of God and is faultless, you put the above statement in just in case I gave you some verses about Jesus and what He says about condemnation to an ever lasting hell. Historians rely on copied material from other peoples and claim to have the truth about who they are, we know the Egyptian Pharaohs erased history of previous Pharaohs and their kingdoms we know they falsified their history at time yet many historians ignore this.
God is giving you a chance right now to reevaluate your standing, but it's up to you to get it started. It is you who said, me to reevaluate my position, (my bold above) not God giving you undeniable proof He exists.

MisterA Wrote:If all God wants is for us to unite with him, there shouldn't even be a hell. But he doesn't want us to just unite with him. He wants anyone who doesn't get on board to suffer in agonizing torment forever and ever.

Read John 3:16, 
2nd Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish.

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Godscreated Wrote:God wasn't trying to give a science lesson and the people of the time wouldn't have understood. He did give men brains so that later when we came to understand what was actually happening that we would have understood what and why He stated it in the manner He did. Can't you see that?

It's so simple that I can explain it to a four year old child, but the omnipotent creator of the universe found it to hard to explain to adults? The sun is the source of light and the moon reflects light from the sun. What's so hard about that? Why on earth would an iron age peasant not be able to understand that? Why would they even have trouble accepting it as a tenet of their religion even if they didn't understand it?

Pro-tip: an omnipotent being can make you understand whatever it wants you to understand. Please keep that in mind going forward.[/quote]

 Again God wasn't interested in giving a science lesson, God was interested in spiritual matters with the Jews. As we see they didn't believe many things God gave them and many other peoples worshiped the moon and would have rejected such a teaching about their god. It's the atheist here who called these people simple minded goat herders that couldn't understand the simplest of things. Are you contradicting them.

GC

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(July 28, 2017 at 1:26 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 28, 2017 at 2:12 am)Godscreated Wrote: Only one man was made from the dust of the earth directly. The rest of us have mothers.


Yes, no doubts.
 

God wasn't trying to give a science lesson and the people of the time wouldn't have understood. He did give men brains so that later when we came to understand what was actually happening that we would have understood what and why He stated it in the manner He did. Can't you see that?


Are you sure that Australia wasn't connected by a land bridge, or that the one super continent was still together?


 A limited gene pool would have nothing to do with that, your question could be asked about people today, think about it. But to answer your intended question, God did not give a commandment against such marriages until Moses time. I suspect it was because the gene pool was of a purer state and by Moses time the gene pool had become corrupted enough so that God gave the commandment against inter family marriage.
 

I'm sure God worked the miracle of the virgin birth, Christ was already the Son before He came to earth to live as a man. Penn and Teller never sawed a woman in half it was an illusion just as you pointed out. Jesus died and was resurrected and in that I have no doubt. Trying to compare the supernatural with the natural is a losing argument for you.
 

 I guess we have all rented a movie we disliked. With that said, I live in a relationship with the living God and I know it's real for many different reasons, of coarse you wouldn't believe they were valid but then God has revealed them to me for me.

GC

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 God doesn't have to recreate those things in those who have chosen hell, those memories reside in the soul and will remain with them forever in hell. Seeing that people choose hell they are responsible for where they spend eternity, God is giving them their choice. If God saved you for heaven against your will you would go screaming and kicking into heaven and that just wouldn't work for many reasons I'm sure scientific mind can reason. As for your last statement above. You will!

GC

Your God does not exist, but if you agree that the book does not claim the character was trying to teach science, then why would I need the character? I can find morals in Charlotte's Web too, but nobody has turned that into a religion.

Just what morels would that be?

Brian37 Wrote:No sorry, I was just having this same argument with a guy on Twitter about this. Back when that was written the writers really did make a bad guess and DID think that the moon was it's own source of light. Just like they thought falsely that the earth was made in 6 days.

All peoples did and why not they had no real idea how things were in the universe. 

Brian37 Wrote:What you are doing, is trying to make excuses to cling to bad claims and old claims because science has now come along and said, "It didn't happen that way."

I'm not clinging to bad or old claims, I'm telling it like it is. They did not know and now we do, so what. As I said God wasn't interested in giving a science lesson, dealing with his people spiritually was foremost.

Brian37 Wrote:I am being fair to you because I don't give credit to any part of antiquity anywhere in the world under any religious label, for what modern science knows now.

Thank you.

Brian37 Wrote:Everyone of every religion worldwide claims their religion makes them good. I am arguing that our species behaviors are in our genes, not old mythology or old religions. Our ability to make discoveries is because our species evolved to be curious. Our species certainly has the capability to be compassionate and non violent and sharing. I simply dispute that a religion does that or a holy writing does that.

I agree to a certain extent, religion in itself can't change people. However the God of the Bible can and that is what Christians claim. That's why I say to those who claim to have been a Christian and claimed they were doing good things for the Lord, were never Christians. They were doing good to practice a religion instead of allowing God to change them in ways that were best for them. Christians say of those people, "they are going through the motions."

Brian37 Wrote:Humans make those things up and merely think that is how good and bad are explained. But again, every religion in the world does this.

  Not Christianity, it is explained why man needs redemption and God gives a way to gain that redemption and not by works but free with some effort.

GC

(July 28, 2017 at 7:55 pm)Godscreated Wrote: I've chosen to worship a loving God who offers everyone a release from an eternal hell, if you do not chose it then it is your fault that you suffer eternally.

Bullshit!  Nobody "chooses" to suffer.  If your god created a hell, your god is responsible for all suffering that occurs there.

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(July 28, 2017 at 9:40 pm)Godscreated Wrote: I'm not threatening you, I'm telling you what God's plan says.

I disagree.  You made a conscious decision to preach "God's plan" at us, and as the threat is coming from you, I am treating it exactly as if you had threatened us with some more mundane form of harm.

Own your fucking language.

(July 28, 2017 at 10:34 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(July 28, 2017 at 7:55 pm)Godscreated Wrote: I've chosen to worship a loving God who offers everyone a release from an eternal hell, if you do not chose it then it is your fault that you suffer eternally.

Bullshit!  Nobody "chooses" to suffer.  If your god created a hell, your god is responsible for all suffering that occurs there.

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(July 28, 2017 at 9:40 pm)Godscreated Wrote: I'm not threatening you, I'm telling you what God's plan says.

I disagree.  You made a conscious decision to preach "God's plan" at us, and as the threat is coming from you, I am treating it exactly as if you had threatened us with some more mundane form of harm.

Own your fucking language.

Goddamn fucking right. I know he's stopped listening to me a long time ago but I still call him out on this all the fucking time.

(July 26, 2017 at 2:49 pm)JackRussell Wrote: Yes, retarded is a very sad bit of the theist mindset.

Depression has good evolutionary explanations, a fact of life you reject.

Calling people retarded is the poisoning of the well that theists excel in, without even understanding.

It is nothing short of compartmentalizing. 

"I didn't mention God"

It is still a dodge. If you hold a deity belief you are viewing the world through that position. 

And this goes with EVERY RELIGION. While many religious people can and to function on a daily basis without things like bi polar or depression or anxiety or schizophrenia religion far too often compounds those things and makes them worse. It is why Andrea Yates murdered her 5 kids. Her belief that she was not living up to God's will combined with post partum lead her to needlessly murder her kids. 

Religion also leads gullible parents to deny health care to children too. But again, none of that is to say that you can rid religion from the world, but it should never be assumed to be harmless either.

Did you look behind the refrigerator?

(July 28, 2017 at 12:43 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(July 27, 2017 at 4:38 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: You seem to be confused about who thinks what is an unforgivable sin. I didn't ask you to explain it to ME.
But gotcha, this guy isn't worthy of your advice. He can go to hell for all you care. Not that he's even telling the truth, it's just another Christian cut-and-paste sob story.

 The guy did not stick around to give advice to unless he is a sock and if that's the case he's not going to care anyway. his whole interest would have been to get a rise out of people. I'm not confused about who thinks what, it's the atheist here that are confused, so confused I thought it prudent to explain the unforgivable sin one more time.

GC

So glad you're here to give us the one and only, indisputably correct personal interpretation of the buy-bull.

(July 28, 2017 at 8:12 pm)Astonished Wrote: Then I'm better than both you and your fucking god because I would never even THINK to create an eternal torture chamber for ANY FUCKING REASON.

Wait a tick.. what about eternal evil? What if the eternal prision was made for an immortal and not man you self righteous douche? after everything that is slated to happen in revelation happens satan is cast into Hell forever.. You not creating n eternal Hell what do you do with satan? let him loose on your population of followers? are you stupid or short sighted?

Quote: I would never be so fucking psychotically insecure as to believe someone not listening to me, especially if it's my own fucking fault, deserves to be punished simply for that.

Retard, what if the Father of all evil simply hates you and everything youve ever done? then what?

Quote: I would never be such a morally demonic piece of shit that I would have the gall to say that someone CHOOSES punishment when the entire dichotomy, believing in nonsense for the worst of reasons or burn in a place I have every reason not to believe even exists, is a fucking joke in the first place. Stick that up your ass, you self-righteous dick. So fucking sick of you trying to take this high-and-might holier-than-thou shit-eating grin position. You're not fucking fooling anyone for a minute.

Wow just wow. never actually met someone who thinks this whole universe revolves around themselves... Someone who has never given any thought to anything deeper than his own lot and how what God creates only affects him.

I truly hope you find out about hell the same way I did.

(July 29, 2017 at 2:38 pm)Drich Wrote: Wow just wow. never actually met someone who thinks this whole universe revolves around themselves... Someone who has never given any thought to anything deeper than his own lot and how what God creates only affects him.

No mirrors in your house, huh?