Maybe this might help illustrate things.

A few weeks ago, Shell was accosted in the street and assaulted by a complete bastard of our unfortunate acquaintance. Basically he dragged her from the public pavement onto a car park, spat in her face (common assault) then pushed, punched and kicked her to make her leave - he claims he used reasonable force to protect himself. Then he spun her around, grabbed hold of the scarf she wears and started to throttle her with it, causing her necklace to cut into her neck.

A woman passerby saw the commotion and ran to alert a nearby police van. They called another van for backup and went to investigate. They took statements from the assailant and his three mates, but not from Shell. Nor from me, even though I was on the phone to her throughout. They let the passerby leave.

Sunday morning, less than twenty-four hours later, we got a voicemail saying the police were happy to close the case, as the statements bore out his version of events. Also they hadn't even looked at the CCTV footage, which they knew they couldn't access until Monday morning. Now, despite showing interest in reopening the investigation and because they dragged their feet, the camera footage has been destroyed (and the bastard himself told Shell he did that) and there is no evidence to support a charge of assault. Medically-documented bruising notwithstanding.

Basically from the point of view of our wonderfully incompetent boys and girls in blue, there is nothing to distinguish one side's word from the other.

(August 3, 2017 at 12:56 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Not content to alter your own narrative, you're now supplying the narratives of others in direct contradiction to a record in which you are now posting -of- what others have said, lol.

You know what I want to know, since we're just learning about people and how they think, in this thread....................

Is this how you are with everything, in every subject, every area of life?  Or is it just the One Thing™ that turns you into a deceitful loon?

You keep calling me a liar.  Time to put up or shut up.  What have I lied about?   If I misunderstand or misrepresent someone on accident... does that make me a deceitful loon?  What does that make of those who are constantly mis-representing me, when it's not even in context or a part of the converstion?  If I misunderstand... correct me, and I will adjust my comments.  Not just a general you don't understand, which is too often thrown out as an insult be specific.   How about just discussing, and leave out the insults, quit making an appeal to motives, and trying to poison the well.  If you want to attack my reasoning fine, if you want to insult the logic, that is ok.  However the need to attack the character of theist posters at every turn is getting old, and doesn't lend to an appearance of intelligence or reason in your arguments, it subtracts from it.  I'm not just talking about you, or even primarily about you (we have had some good conversations) but this is the most recent case.  I let a lot slide, but this is getting ridiculous.

I've probably slipped up, but I'm not even trying to make an argument here.
And if you want to learn my thoughts on the matter, I plan on replying to the OP.

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(August 3, 2017 at 1:25 pm)Cyberman Wrote: Maybe this might help illustrate things.

A few weeks ago, Shell was accosted in the street and assaulted by a complete bastard of our unfortunate acquaintance. Basically he dragged her from the public pavement onto a car park, spat in her face (common assault) then pushed, punched and kicked her to make her leave - he claims he used reasonable force to protect himself. Then he spun her around, grabbed hold of the scarf she wears and started to throttle her with it, causing her necklace to cut into her neck.

A woman passerby saw the commotion and ran to alert a nearby police van. They called another van for backup and went to investigate. They took statements from the assailant and his three mates, but not from Shell. Nor from me, even though I was on the phone to her throughout. They let the passerby leave.

Sunday morning, less than twenty-four hours later, we got a voicemail saying the police were happy to close the case, as the statements bore out his version of events. Also they hadn't even looked at the CCTV footage, which they knew they couldn't access until Monday morning. Now, despite showing interest in reopening the investigation and because they dragged their feet, the camera footage has been destroyed (and the bastard himself told Shell he did that) and there is no evidence to support a charge of assault. Medically-documented bruising notwithstanding.

Basically from the point of view of our wonderfully incompetent boys and girls in blue, there is nothing to distinguish one side's word from the other.

Wow,
First off, I'm sorry to here about this incident with you and Shelly.  It sounds like the police did a horrible job.   Not taking your testimony; and by letting the one who got the police go, without taking a statement.  Also, by not getting the video footage that was available.  It's understandable, if it's one sides word against the other, but it sucks.   I would think that you could have a little bit of a case, pointing out the incompetence of the police, and if anything was said by the outside witness who got the police in the first place.  But it may not be worth the effort.

At one time, I had been charged with an accident, that wasn't my fault.  I was turning into a divided street.   There was another car oncoming a little ways down the road.   Someone was at a stop sign coming out of the divided street.  Just as I started to turn, the car did a U-Turn in front of me forcing me to stop.  Oncoming traffic hit me in the side, and I was at fault, because I was in their lane the car that cut me off drove away.  Oncoming traffic didn't see the other car (only me an my brother).  Police said, that without an outside witness there was nothing they could do, and I should of hit the car that turned in front of me.

Well we're not taking it lying down, that's for sure. We'll be bringing it to the attention of her MP, and I'm sure the news media are going to find it in the public interest.

(August 3, 2017 at 1:25 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: You keep calling me a liar.  Time to put up or shut up.  What have I lied about?

The thread exists, it;s there for all to read.  Your posting history exists, it's there for all to read.

Quote: If I misunderstand or misrepresent someone on accident... does that make me a deceitful loon? 

Once or twice is an accident.  Unless you somehow manage to "accidentally" straw man every single poster every single time then you're just a common liar.  If you do manage that, you're an almost incomparable buffoon.  You can have either, I don't care which one you want to convince me of more.

Quote:What does that make of those who are constantly mis-representing me, when it's not even in context or a part of the converstion?  If I misunderstand... correct me, and I will adjust my comments. 

Another lie, I've never known you..in all the time you've been here, to adjust your comments to correction.  

Quote:Not just a general you don't understand, which is too often thrown out as an insult be specific.   How about just discussing, and leave out the insults, quit making an appeal to motives, and trying to poison the well.  If you want to attack my reasoning fine, if you want to insult the logic, that is ok.  However the need to attack the character of theist posters at every turn is getting old, and doesn't lend to an appearance of intelligence or reason in your arguments, it subtracts from it.  I'm not just talking about you, or even primarily about you (we have had some good conversations) but this is the most recent case.  I let a lot slide, but this is getting ridiculous.

There's no reasoning or logic to "attack" RR, that's the problem.  Yes, it -is- getting ridiculous.  You could stop at any time. No ones gutting your character but yourself, and it;s the height of idiocy to whine when others point out what youi;ve done, continue to do, and will do again...as though they have somehow victimized you.

Quote:I've probably slipped up, but I'm not even trying to make an argument here.
And if you want to learn my thoughts on the matter, I plan on replying to the OP.

(August 3, 2017 at 2:06 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(August 3, 2017 at 1:25 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: You keep calling me a liar.  Time to put up or shut up.  What have I lied about?

The thread exists, it;s there for all to read.  Your posting history exists, it's there for all to read.

Quote: If I misunderstand or misrepresent someone on accident... does that make me a deceitful loon? 

Once or twice is an accident.  Unless you somehow manage to "accidentally" straw man every single poster every single time then you're just a common liar.  If you do manage that, you're an almost incomparable buffoon.  You can have either, I don't care which one you want to convince me of more.

Quote:What does that make of those who are constantly mis-representing me, when it's not even in context or a part of the converstion?  If I misunderstand... correct me, and I will adjust my comments. 

Another lie, I've never known you..in all the time you've been here, to adjust your comments to correction.  

See, if you had given evidence of me lying (not mistaken or you thinking I'm lying based on your false assuptions) I would have made a correction
However in the end, it's not about the people but the ideas and reason.... let's move on to more important things.

Sure, let's focus on the lynching theory of justice and divinity. Is there something in specific that you'd like to discuss about it, that hasn't already been addressed?

(August 3, 2017 at 2:20 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Sure, let's focus on the lynching theory of justice and divinity.  Is there something in specific that you'd like to discuss about it, that hasn't already been addressed?

Make a thread.... If I have something to add, I'll join in.

(August 3, 2017 at 2:16 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: See, if you had given evidence of me lying (not mistaken or you thinking I'm lying based on your false assuptions) I would have made a correction

Eyewitness testimony not good enough?

(August 3, 2017 at 2:22 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(August 3, 2017 at 2:20 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Sure, let's focus on the lynching theory of justice and divinity.  Is there something in specific that you'd like to discuss about it, that hasn't already been addressed?

Make a thread.... If I have something to add, I'll join in.

Why would I make -another- thread for you to bullshit us about the same old things you always bullshit us about, lol?

@Cyber, I think we all know that eyewitness testimony is only good enough for pixies and magical spells.

(August 3, 2017 at 11:42 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Are you saying, that if I have "my people " make the body disappear, that the numerous witnesses who had seen the body (police, doctors, and others), would have no evidence that there was even a crime?  I'll instruct them to burn down the hospital to make sure there is no physical evidence left behind.  People can even see them do it.  They can even tell them exactly why it is being done, and by whom.    If there is no physical evidence which ties back to them then they cannot convict me of either crime.  And best of all anybody who says that I did it, is irrational basing their opinion on the claims of alleged witnesses and hearsay?

Your scenario just gets more and more ludicrous, RR.  (Oh, and a burned-down hospital is physical evidence, you know.)

The critical difference between witnesses to your hypothetical crime and the alleged witnesses to scriptural events is that we can cross-examine living witnesses to see if there are consistencies and overall plausibility in their testimony.

Your scenario, as idiotic as it is becoming, still has not crossed into the realm of an extraordinary event.  Hospitals can burn.  Bodies can disappear.  Unlikely as it all is, it is at least physically possible.  This is why you're barking up the wrong tree with this whole thread -- You're trying to compare a possible real-life event with something that's vastly more likely to be mythology.