(August 9, 2017 at 8:57 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I just don't think he is being serius about his account and persona here. I think he's trolling and this is a poe account.

That's the way I've been leaning the past couple days as well.

(August 9, 2017 at 8:57 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I just don't think he is being serius about his account and persona here. I think he's trolling and this is a poe account.

Loony does not equal "troll". Mystic our resident Muslim posted some really dreamy eyed romance posts while quoting the Koran. Nobody could get through to him not even Atlass our other Muslim here. I never hated MK but after reading his posts I did wonder if he need to get a better support structure in his outside life. He really reminded me of when I was obsessed with Pat Benatar. 

I have seen this same behavior even outside religion with other males in my past about dating or attempting to date women. I have seen guys obsess over them or when in a relationship, ignore all the toxic exchanges because they confused attraction and hormones with love. MK was a nice guy, but he was in love with the Koran, just like I was "in love" with Pat Benatar. 

"trolls" for the most part hit and run and don't stay long. He is annoying to me, but I am not sure he fits the definition of a troll. I think the admins here do a great job of policing this forum and at the same time allow everyone a voice, even when we don't like each other. They've got an eye on him.

What exactly is a poe? Is it distinct from a troll or just a synonym? I've heard them mention it on the Atheist Experience show but had no idea what they were talking about, and forgot about it til now.

(August 9, 2017 at 10:52 am)Astonished Wrote: What exactly is a poe? Is it distinct from a troll or just a synonym? I've heard them mention it on the Atheist Experience show but had no idea what they were talking about, and forgot about it til now.

A Poe is someone who fakes certain beliefs or viewpoints in order to make people who genuinely hold those viewpoints look bad.  It comes from Poe's Law, which states that any parody of fundamentalism is impossible to distinguish from genuine fundamentalism, because there are actual people who hold those views.  That's why it's always a question of whether or not someone is a Poe.  For example, someone comes onto the forum, parroting the most oversimplified, ridiculous versions of theistic arguments.  Option 1) they honestly believe those arguments, option 2) they are faking it to make theists look bad.  Option 2 would be a Poe. The problem is that it's hard to tell the difference, since we've all met theists who actually believe those wacky things (I'm sure you can think of a handful on this forum alone).

A troll is just someone who wants to stir shit up without adding anything to a discussion, just being a douchebag.   They aren't mutually exclusive either. I'd say all Poes are trolls, but not all trolls are Poes.

(August 9, 2017 at 11:05 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(August 9, 2017 at 10:52 am)Astonished Wrote: What exactly is a poe? Is it distinct from a troll or just a synonym? I've heard them mention it on the Atheist Experience show but had no idea what they were talking about, and forgot about it til now.

A Poe is someone who fakes certain beliefs or viewpoints in order to make people who genuinely hold those viewpoints look bad.  It comes from Poe's Law, which states that any parody of fundamentalism is impossible to distinguish from genuine fundamentalism, because there are actual people who hold those views.  That's why it's always a question of whether or not someone is a Poe.  For example, someone comes onto the forum, parroting the most oversimplified, ridiculous versions of theistic arguments.  Option 1) they honestly believe those arguments, option 2) they are faking it to make theists look bad.  Option 2 would be a Poe.  The problem is that it's hard to tell the difference, since we've all met theists who actually believe those wacky things (I'm sure you can think of a handful on this forum alone).

A troll is just someone who wants to stir shit up without adding anything to a discussion, just being a douchebag.   They aren't mutually exclusive either.

As soon as I finished reading that first sentence, I was like, "Oh, is that like when they say that it's impossible to tell if someone who says something stupid in the name of religion is actually legitimately that batshit or if they're just faking?" But then you immediately followed it up with that. Why is it called Poe's law? Did Edgar Allan Poe have a satirical anti-religious bent or is it named after someone else called Poe or was there just no other better one-syllable name to give it?

(August 9, 2017 at 11:13 am)Astonished Wrote:

(August 9, 2017 at 11:05 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: A Poe is someone who fakes certain beliefs or viewpoints in order to make people who genuinely hold those viewpoints look bad.  It comes from Poe's Law, which states that any parody of fundamentalism is impossible to distinguish from genuine fundamentalism, because there are actual people who hold those views.  That's why it's always a question of whether or not someone is a Poe.  For example, someone comes onto the forum, parroting the most oversimplified, ridiculous versions of theistic arguments.  Option 1) they honestly believe those arguments, option 2) they are faking it to make theists look bad.  Option 2 would be a Poe.  The problem is that it's hard to tell the difference, since we've all met theists who actually believe those wacky things (I'm sure you can think of a handful on this forum alone).

A troll is just someone who wants to stir shit up without adding anything to a discussion, just being a douchebag.   They aren't mutually exclusive either.

As soon as I finished reading that first sentence, I was like, "Oh, is that like when they say that it's impossible to tell if someone who says something stupid in the name of religion is actually legitimately that batshit or if they're just faking?" But then you immediately followed it up with that. Why is it called Poe's law? Did Edgar Allan Poe have a satirical anti-religious bent or is it named after someone else called Poe or was there just no other better one-syllable name to give it?

It was coined within the last decade-ish, believe it or not.  It's one of those "internet laws" like Godwin's law or Cunningham's law, that only came about because of the internet and the mass communication it allowed.  A guy called Nathan Poe coined it on a Christian forum during a debate about creationism, which is extremely apt.

It's someone pretending to be something they are not and acting extreme in that role for the sake of satire.

Example:

An atheist coming on here posing as a Christian and acting like a total weirdo and filling the role of a stereotypical uber conservative Christian.

---

(August 9, 2017 at 11:05 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(August 9, 2017 at 10:52 am)Astonished Wrote: What exactly is a poe? Is it distinct from a troll or just a synonym? I've heard them mention it on the Atheist Experience show but had no idea what they were talking about, and forgot about it til now.

A Poe is someone who fakes certain beliefs or viewpoints in order to make people who genuinely hold those viewpoints look bad.  It comes from Poe's Law, which states that any parody of fundamentalism is impossible to distinguish from genuine fundamentalism, because there are actual people who hold those views.  That's why it's always a question of whether or not someone is a Poe.  For example, someone comes onto the forum, parroting the most oversimplified, ridiculous versions of theistic arguments.  Option 1) they honestly believe those arguments, option 2) they are faking it to make theists look bad.  Option 2 would be a Poe.  The problem is that it's hard to tell the difference, since we've all met theists who actually believe those wacky things (I'm sure you can think of a handful on this forum alone).

A troll is just someone who wants to stir shit up without adding anything to a discussion, just being a douchebag.   They aren't mutually exclusive either.  I'd say all Poes are trolls, but not all trolls are Poes.

Yes, this^

(August 9, 2017 at 8:17 am)Brian37 Wrote: ..Jesus was a fictional character..

Prove it..
As for Gene Roddenberry who invented Star Trek, he was an atheist but was still open-minded enough not to ban religious references from the show, so kudos to him..

Religion in Star Trek
An alien 'god' demands Kirk worships him but Kirk replies-"Mankind has no need of gods, we find the One quite adequate" (OST: 'Who Mourns for Adonais")

McCoy says 'Lord forgive me" when he kills an alien with a phaser blast that's taken the form of an attractive human woman. (OST: The Man Trap)

The rebels on Magna Roma, a nearly perfect "Parallel Earth", seem to worship the "sun", which Uhura discovers is actually God's "Son" Jesus. (OST: "Bread and Circuses").

In the wedding chapel on the Enterprise we can see a sort of altar and some religious symbols, among them a cross (OST: "Balance of Terror").

The computer M-5 states: "Murder is contrary to the laws of man and God" (OST: "The Ultimate Computer").

Dr. Ozaba quotes from the Bible- "In His hands are the deep places of the Earth. Psalm 95, verse 4." (OST: "The Empath").

Dr. Phlox says he has been to a Tibetan monastery and that he has attended a mass at St. Peter's Square. This is a most definite statement that religion still plays a role in the 22nd century (ENT: "Cold Front").

Spock, traveling back in time to save his own life, presents himself to his parents as a cousin making a ritual journey "to honor our gods". (TAS: "Yesteryear").

Vulcans, like many other races, believe in a spiritual place from which they as a people were born. Their name for this place is Sha Ka Ree ("Star Trek V")

Bridge officer Lt. Rhada is wearing a bindi, a traditional Hindu symbol, on her forehead (TOS: "That Which Survives")

Edith Keeler runs a Christian mission and soup kitchen in New York in the 1930s (TOS: "The City on the Edge of Forever")

Data mentions a Hindu Festival of Lights in his log entry (TNG: "Data's Day")

There is a mention of a Christmas party (TOS: "Dagger of the Mind")

The Caldos Colony includes a church or chapel and we can hear the attendees say "Amen" (TNG: "Sub Rosa")

The American Indians on Dorvan V continue to practice their old rituals such as vision quests. Picard says he has the deepest respect for them (TNG: "Journey's End")

Kilana asks Sisko: "Do you have any gods, captain?" He replies- "There are things I believe in." (DS9: "The Ship")

Sisko recites from the Bible to his son's surprise. He also appears as a priest in Ben's hallucination (DS9: "Far Beyond the Stars")

Kasidy says she would like to have a priest to perform the wedding ceremony (DS9: "Penumbra")

Captain Saavik asks Admiral Kirk for suggestions. He replies- "Prayer, the Klingons don't take prisoners" (Wrath of Khan)

A church in VOY "Spirit Folk"


Picard celebrates Christmas with his family in the Nexus ("Star Trek Generations")


MORE- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/incons...ligion.htm

yeah, this is just getting embarrassing.

(August 9, 2017 at 11:41 am)Dropship Wrote:

(August 9, 2017 at 8:17 am)Brian37 Wrote: ..Jesus was a fictional character..

Prove it..
As for Gene Roddenberry who invented Star Trek, he was an atheist but was still open-minded enough not to ban religious references from the show, so kudos to him..

Religion in Star Trek
An alien 'god' demands Kirk worships him but Kirk replies-"Mankind has no need of gods, we find the One quite adequate" (OST: 'Who Mourns for Adonais")

McCoy says 'Lord forgive me" when he kills an alien with a phaser blast that's taken the form of an attractive human woman. (OST: The Man Trap)

The rebels on Magna Roma, a nearly perfect "Parallel Earth", seem to worship the "sun", which Uhura discovers is actually God's "Son" Jesus. (OST: "Bread and Circuses").

In the wedding chapel on the Enterprise we can see a sort of altar and some religious symbols, among them a cross (OST: "Balance of Terror").

The computer M-5 states: "Murder is contrary to the laws of man and God" (OST: "The Ultimate Computer").

Dr. Ozaba quotes from the Bible- "In His hands are the deep places of the Earth. Psalm 95, verse 4." (OST: "The Empath").

Dr. Phlox says he has been to a Tibetan monastery and that he has attended a mass at St. Peter's Square. This is a most definite statement that religion still plays a role in the 22nd century (ENT: "Cold Front").

Spock, traveling back in time to save his own life, presents himself to his parents as a cousin making a ritual journey "to honor our gods". (TAS: "Yesteryear").

Vulcans, like many other races, believe in a spiritual place from which they as a people were born. Their name for this place is Sha Ka Ree ("Star Trek V")

Bridge officer Lt. Rhada is wearing a bindi, a traditional Hindu symbol, on her forehead (TOS: "That Which Survives")

Edith Keeler runs a Christian mission and soup kitchen in New York in the 1930s (TOS: "The City on the Edge of Forever")

Data mentions a Hindu Festival of Lights in his log entry (TNG: "Data's Day")

There is a mention of a Christmas party (TOS: "Dagger of the Mind")

The Caldos Colony includes a church or chapel and we can hear the attendees say "Amen" (TNG: "Sub Rosa")

The American Indians on Dorvan V continue to practice their old rituals such as vision quests. Picard says he has the deepest respect for them (TNG: "Journey's End")

Kilana asks Sisko: "Do you have any gods, captain?" He replies- "There are things I believe in." (DS9: "The Ship")

Sisko recites from the Bible to his son's surprise. He also appears as a priest in Ben's hallucination (DS9: "Far Beyond the Stars")

Kasidy says she would like to have a priest to perform the wedding ceremony (DS9: "Penumbra")

Captain Saavik asks Admiral Kirk for suggestions. He replies- "Prayer, the Klingons don't take prisoners" (Wrath of Khan)

A church in VOY "Spirit Folk"


Picard celebrates Christmas with his family in the Nexus ("Star Trek Generations")


MORE- http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/incons...ligion.htm

How does Roddenberry being tolerant of diversity prove the existence of your personal pet deity claim?

You do understand he was once approached and it was suggested that the show had a Christian Chaplin and he refused basically saying the show was not there for one religion but all of humanity.

Accepting diversity does not mean accepting every individual claim a human may make.

There are lots of people in my life who have held god claims to be true, the most important person in my life, my mom died this past March, she died a believer, but even she knew what I thought of her claims. Liking an individual or loving an individual does not mean you have to agree with everything they claim.

I most certainly value my fellow humans capability of compassion and empathy even that of believers, I simply doubt their claims as to where that empathy is coming from.

Roddenberry was a very compassionate man and had a great pulse of what humanity could be capable of if we wanted to be. But no, not even that proves one god over another, or that all gods are true equally. It simply was a great show.