Jefferson Davis Quotes:

"We recognize the fact of the inferiority stamped upon that race of men by the Creator, and from the cradle to the grave, our Government, as a civil institution, marks that inferiority."

"It would grant me much relief to learn your sons were engaged matrimonially to other white men if I was previously faced with the spectre of those same sons wedding negro women, slave or free, and siring negro sons that could presume to claim inheritance of your namesakes and property, or worse, equality with your purer grandchildren."

"We recognize the negro as God and God's Book and God's Laws, in nature, tell us to recognize him. Our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude."

"Property in slaves, recognized as such by the local law of any of the States of the Union, shall stand on the same footing in all constitutional and federal relations as any other species of property so recognized; and, like other property, shall not be subject to be divested or impaired by the local law of any other State, either in escape thereto or of transit or sojourn of the owner therein; and in no case whatever shall such property be subject to be divested or impaired by any legislative act of the United States, or of any of the Territories thereof."

"Why, then, in the absence of all control over the subject of African slavery, are you agitated in relation to it? With Pharisaical pretension it is sometimes said it is a moral obligation to agitate, and I suppose they are going through a sort of vicarious repentance for other men's sins... Who gave them a right to decide that it is a sin? By what standard do they measure it? Not the Constitution; the Constitution recognizes the property in many forms, and imposes obligations in connection with that recognition. Not the Bible; that justifies it. Not the good of society; for if they go where it exists, they find that society recognizes it as good..."



I support the immediate removal of all monuments to this man and his minions.

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Robert E. Lee Quotes:

"In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence."

“Considering the relation of master and slave, controlled by humane laws and influenced by Christianity and an enlightened public sentiment, as the best that can exist between the white and black races while intermingled as at present in this country, I would depreciate any sudden disturbance of that relation unless it be necessary to avert a greater calamity to both.”

Take his statues down now!

I graduated from a High School named after Lee. I was too young and stupid to understand it at the time, and nothing about the reality of that history back then. The only reason I changed schools was chasing after a cheer leader who had no interest in me. Sad part is that in pluralistic Northern Va such names still exist and it still holds that name today.

Having said that, the statues should not be destroyed, but put into a Holocaust type museum as part of a history of what not to do to our fellow humans. The sickos insisting they remain argue it is part of our history. Yes, but nothing to be glorified or celebrated.

I think that it should be left up to a town vote, the residents who make up the town should get to decide how they are represented.

(August 14, 2017 at 8:03 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: I think that it should be left up to a town vote, the residents who make up the town should get to decide how they are represented.

Everyone here knows I am hardly PC, but no, sorry, this isn't about free speech, this is about clinging to institutionalized racism. Leaving those statues up in the context that they were put up, to glorify what they defended to keep, is not what our nation should seek to keep.

I can see them as part of a museum of what not to do, but to leave them up knowing why they were put up in the first place to paint them as heros is vile. Leaving them up in that context is no different to me than glorifying Andrew Jackson and what he did to Native Americans. 

Slavery was a horrible part of our history. Lynchings were a horrible part of our history. Segregation was a horrible part of our history. Nobody back then who supported that should be represented in such a way as those who made the statues back then supported or the actual men who supported it.

Nobody should erase that past nor pretend it never happened. But I am not talking about erasing history but putting those figures in the context of what humans should not do to other humans.

(August 13, 2017 at 6:53 pm)Court Jester Wrote:

(August 13, 2017 at 6:25 pm)bennyboy Wrote: I feel like with the douchebaggery of the Republicans, and the growing white movement in the south, that the civil war hasn't ended after all-- it was just under an extended cease-fire.

Oh, please. Let's not be too overly dramatic.
It was a national organization that couldn't muster more than a few hundred ass hats to protest for the weekend. That hardly points to a mass issue.

It absolutely does. Have you read comments on news stories? They have a lot of support, and it's not just trolls. This is the America that POC have been telling us about all along, but we just didn't believe them. They are in the white house, FFS. 

This is not a splinter.

(August 13, 2017 at 10:58 pm)Rahul Wrote: . 

Back to you saying the southern citizens armed themselves and went to war... the Confederacy didn't want a war.

Well then why did they fire the first shot? The Confederate militia tried to force the US Army out of Fort Sumter as manoeuvring towards securing their sea flanks during what they saw as an inevitable war. They fired at the garrison in a deliberate act of war.

Even their conventions demanding to be alliwed secede were taken in the full knowledge those actions would provoke wae. Guess what? The Confederate leaders didn't care. They wanted war ever since they realised they could no longer control the federal government.

(August 14, 2017 at 8:20 am)Mermaid Wrote:

(August 13, 2017 at 6:53 pm)Court Jester Wrote: Oh, please. Let's not be too overly dramatic.
It was a national organization that couldn't muster more than a few hundred ass hats to protest for the weekend. That hardly points to a mass issue.

It absolutely does. Have you read comments on news stories? They have a lot of support, and it's not just trolls. This is the America that POC have been telling us about all along, but we just didn't believe them. They are in the white house, FFS. 

This is not a splinter.

I 100% agree. I think there is still far too much old money and Nixon bitterness still infecting modern politics. We saw the same far right support when the right wing terrorists took over the nature reserve. 

The amount of right wing religious hate groups shot through the roof when Obama got elected the first time. Since then the GOP and 45 have dog whistled to that far right base. No, of course not all GOP are bigots, but just like the middle east and Islam, it has just enough support to cause problems. 

I would love nothing more that for poor urban blacks and poor rural whites to understand nationwide that economics should be what we all have in common. But only 1 party for decades has been using race to distract the middle class and working poor of all races from the fact they use that to protect corporate welfare.

But no, those statues should not stand in their current context. Those statues of the military of the south can only be appropriate in the context of a museum of what not to do to our fellow humans.

(August 14, 2017 at 8:19 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(August 14, 2017 at 8:03 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: I think that it should be left up to a town vote, the residents who make up the town should get to decide how they are represented.

Everyone here knows I am hardly PC, but no, sorry, this isn't about free speech, this is about clinging to institutionalized racism. Leaving those statues up in the context that they were put up, to glorify what they defended to keep, is not what our nation should seek to keep.

I can see them as part of a museum of what not to do, but to leave them up knowing why they were put up in the first place to paint them as heros is vile. Leaving them up in that context is no different to me than glorifying Andrew Jackson and what he did to Native Americans. 

Slavery was a horrible part of our history. Lynchings were a horrible part of our history. Segregation was a horrible part of our history. Nobody back then who supported that should be represented in such a way as those who made the statues back then supported or the actual men who supported it.

Nobody should erase that past nor pretend it never happened. But I am not talking about erasing history but putting those figures in the context of what humans should not do to other humans.

Why shouldn't the town have a say, it doesn't violate any constitutional rights and if the people there want the statue then they should be able to keep it, as well as if they don't want it then they they should be able to remove it. Slavery is bad no doubt about it, but that's not the issue here, the issue is should towns not be able to display statues of people who fought for the confederacy.

(August 13, 2017 at 9:15 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote:
Now we are having to defend Black Lives Matter instead of condemning actual hate groups,  this is just the kind of deflection that Trump was going for.

(August 14, 2017 at 8:40 am)Mr.wizard Wrote:

(August 14, 2017 at 8:19 am)Brian37 Wrote: Everyone here knows I am hardly PC, but no, sorry, this isn't about free speech, this is about clinging to institutionalized racism. Leaving those statues up in the context that they were put up, to glorify what they defended to keep, is not what our nation should seek to keep.

I can see them as part of a museum of what not to do, but to leave them up knowing why they were put up in the first place to paint them as heros is vile. Leaving them up in that context is no different to me than glorifying Andrew Jackson and what he did to Native Americans. 

Slavery was a horrible part of our history. Lynchings were a horrible part of our history. Segregation was a horrible part of our history. Nobody back then who supported that should be represented in such a way as those who made the statues back then supported or the actual men who supported it.

Nobody should erase that past nor pretend it never happened. But I am not talking about erasing history but putting those figures in the context of what humans should not do to other humans.

Why shouldn't the town have a say, it doesn't violate any constitutional rights and if the people there want the statue then they should be able to keep it, as well as if they don't want it then they they should be able to remove it. Slavery is bad no doubt about it, but that's not the issue here, the issue is should towns not be able to display statues of people who fought for the confederacy.

^^^^^ Is like saying, "Why cant Islamic countries throw gays off rooftops and deny women equal rights?"

This is about the pure fact that government property is the property of everyone, not one group, not one political party and should not be used to promote or glorify cruelty to other humans. Those who conducted the war in the south were not heros, they were the enemy.

You would not say that say, if Iran had a civil war, and out of the ashes a western democracy rose but some still kept the statues of those who clung to the past. 

If you defend the town/city in that fashion then you have no value for the bloodshed and struggle of those who supported the likes of MLK and what he did and died for to end segregation. To leave up statues of those who apposed the progress he died for is vile. 

The only context those statues should be kept around like I said, is in a museum of what not to do to your fellow human being.

You are not defending free speech by arguing like this. You are defending a vile history that nobody should want to glorify.