So have a Greatest Slavery Proponents theme park, put it next to the Ark Park, sell twofer tickets. Just don't make taxpayers support it.

Also, benny seems to be simply saying "i don't mind them, so anyone who does is morally weak, or committing genocide on ideas, or wants to squash free speech," regardless of the fact that the community that pays for the statues agreed that they wanted to take them down or move them.

(September 13, 2017 at 10:38 am)bennyboy Wrote: I'm a little uncomfortable because it's looking like I'm a KKK guy or something.  But that's not it-- I value cultural diversity, and that means including all the main players in history as visible icons.  It means letting even Southern racists have their voice, and some avenue for their cultural expression.  Put up a goddamned statue of Hitler in Berlin so the Jews have something to piss on.  Put up one of Charlie Manson.  Put up Trump or Justin Bieber.  Then pass me a beer and throw me a frisbee.

You're "looking like a KKK guy" because you're reading from their script.  This is what happens when racism is normalized, brought into mainstream politics and media through dog whistles and genteel civility, then allowed to dominate the narrative as counter-culture.

One guy was going to blow one of the traitor's statute up but he got caught.

(September 13, 2017 at 11:27 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: One guy was going to blow one of the traitor's statute up but he got caught.

Yeeah... that guy should be charged with whatever relevant crimes apply.  Blowing up something =/= a community voting to take something down or move it to a museum.

(September 13, 2017 at 11:20 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(September 13, 2017 at 10:38 am)bennyboy Wrote: I'm a little uncomfortable because it's looking like I'm a KKK guy or something.  But that's not it-- I value cultural diversity, and that means including all the main players in history as visible icons.  It means letting even Southern racists have their voice, and some avenue for their cultural expression.  Put up a goddamned statue of Hitler in Berlin so the Jews have something to piss on.  Put up one of Charlie Manson.  Put up Trump or Justin Bieber.  Then pass me a beer and throw me a frisbee.

You're "looking like a KKK guy" because you're reading from their script.  This is what happens when racism is normalized, brought into mainstream politics and media through dog whistles and genteel civility, then allowed to dominate the narrative as counter-culture.

Wow, so passionate.  How do you have time to type when you're on your way to have statues of American leaders who mistreated (I mean, cultural and biological genocide for real) the natives torn down?  To be frank, I don't see many Americans losing sleep over that issue.  Genteel civility, indeed.

Remember when Tizheruk was talking about dream catchers as important symbols to his people, and the majority rule here was that he and his racial background should go fuck themselves, 'cuz who the fuck is he to tell us what we should / shouldn't consider important symbols?  I do, and I bet he does, too.

---

(September 13, 2017 at 11:04 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Also, benny seems to be simply saying "i don't mind them, so anyone who does is morally weak, or committing genocide on ideas, or wants to squash free speech," regardless of the fact that the community that pays for the statues agreed that they wanted to take them down or move them.

Yeah, those statues and their ongoing costs.  Cleaning and maintenance must cost dozens of dollars per year.  Moving the statue. . . yeah, that's not going to cost anything at all.

And what's this bullshit about the community agreeing?  Was there actually community agreement?  I find it hard to find that even a numerical majority of Charlottesville citizens really was in favor of removing the statue.  I'm guessing it was an act by local government interested in making political inroads into the left vote.

Am I wrong?

(September 13, 2017 at 11:45 am)bennyboy Wrote: Wow, so passionate. How do you have time to type when you're on your way to have statues of American leaders who mistreated (I mean, cultural and biological genocide for real) the natives torn down?  To be frank, I don't see many Americans losing sleep over that issue.  Genteel civility, indeed.

..............................exactly

Quote:Remember when Tizheruk was talking about dream catchers as important symbols to his people, and the majority rule here was that he and his racial background should go fuck themselves, 'cuz who the fuck is he to tell us what we should / shouldn't consider important symbols?  I do, and I bet he does, too.

-and?

I'll repeat my previous comments in the form of a question. Do you think that it's possible that advocates of racism have managed to steer some narratives to a point of advantage for their ideologies? Do you think that it;s possible that one, or some, of these narratives have influenced your appraisal of the situation regarding statue enthusiasm?

(September 13, 2017 at 11:50 am)Khemikal Wrote: I'll repeat my previous comments in the form of a question.  Do you think that it's possible that advocates of racism have managed to steer some narratives to a point of advantage for their ideologies?  Do you think that it;s possible that one, or some, of these narratives have influenced your appraisal of the situation regarding statue enthusiasm?

I doubt it. My assessment of them is that they are a bunch of wingnuts in Halloween costumes.


But I'd still like to have the statues out in the public eye. Let them remain a thorny subject. Let them draw wingnuts and counter-protesters. Let them serve as points of interest. They are for the most part pretty good works of art, and are of legitimate historical interest, no matter who put them up or why. If they can be controversial, all the better in my opinion. Let interested parties look each other in the eye, let them shout it out. If crimes are committed around them, let them be filmed and let the police act.

(September 13, 2017 at 1:11 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(September 13, 2017 at 11:50 am)Khemikal Wrote: I'll repeat my previous comments in the form of a question.  Do you think that it's possible that advocates of racism have managed to steer some narratives to a point of advantage for their ideologies?  Do you think that it;s possible that one, or some, of these narratives have influenced your appraisal of the situation regarding statue enthusiasm?

I doubt it.  My assessment of them is that they are a bunch of wingnuts in Halloween costumes.


But I'd still like to have the statues out in the public eye.  Let them remain a thorny subject.  Let them draw wingnuts and counter-protesters.  Let them serve as points of interest.  They are for the most part pretty good works of art, and are of legitimate historical interest, no matter who put them up or why.  If they can be controversial, all the better in my opinion.  Let interested parties look each other in the eye, let them shout it out.  If crimes are committed around them, let them be filmed and let the police act.

Nobody is saying that you* can't have statues of murderers, rapists, slavers, terrorists, whatever else you want, in a park. You just don't get to use tax payer money to keep that park running. 


*Generic "you".

And "wingnuts" aren't usually lynching people.

(September 13, 2017 at 1:41 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:

(September 13, 2017 at 1:11 pm)bennyboy Wrote: I doubt it.  My assessment of them is that they are a bunch of wingnuts in Halloween costumes.


But I'd still like to have the statues out in the public eye.  Let them remain a thorny subject.  Let them draw wingnuts and counter-protesters.  Let them serve as points of interest.  They are for the most part pretty good works of art, and are of legitimate historical interest, no matter who put them up or why.  If they can be controversial, all the better in my opinion.  Let interested parties look each other in the eye, let them shout it out.  If crimes are committed around them, let them be filmed and let the police act.

Nobody is saying that you* can't have statues of murderers, rapists, slavers, terrorists, whatever else you want, in a park. You just don't get to use tax payer money to keep that park running. 


*Generic "you".

And "wingnuts" aren't usually lynching people.

If the community decides to re/move them, that is.