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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
October 23, 2017 at 6:59 pm
When one argument for God clicks because one is sincere enough to themselves, to be honest, and are compassionate and loving to themselves enough to be truthful to themselves, all the arguments for God, or almost all of them, they will all click.
Most arguments known out there for God are true and manifestly so, and each of their premises has many proofs and elaboration.
I am not sure how "faith" is defined in Western world, but in Islam is a trust in one's perception of proofs of God and the proper religion, to the extent, one follows it and becomes sincere to God and his Messenger.
Doubt when there is manifest proofs doesn't make sense to be perpetual, it is only helpful in the beginning so that one takes the leap of faith, which is trusting in one's perceptions of clear proofs from God.
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
October 24, 2017 at 9:12 am
With a leap of faith, you can believe anything. Have you considered the possibility that your proofs don't make sense to us because they're not sensible?
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
October 24, 2017 at 9:15 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2017 at 9:17 am by Mystic.)
(October 24, 2017 at 9:12 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: With a leap of faith, you can believe anything. Have you considered the possibility that your proofs don't make sense to us because they're not sensible?
I rehearse them and they are found in better form and context in Quran. If the witness argument is false, then so is the Quran.
And I always go testing them with as much denial possible and arguments against them, but they all fail. I once made a thread arguing with myself, but people didn't like that.
Believe it or not, I have much better arguments against my arguments than you guys, only I know the counter arguments already.
Your arguments against them are a constant misunderstanding of the argument or just dismissing premises with no reason to.
I can go to details of each premise and provide elaborations which I have in other threads, but I find people lose interest as attention span is lacking.
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
October 24, 2017 at 9:22 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2017 at 9:23 am by pocaracas.)
(October 24, 2017 at 9:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: (October 24, 2017 at 9:12 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: With a leap of faith, you can believe anything. Have you considered the possibility that your proofs don't make sense to us because they're not sensible?
I rehearse them and they are found in better form and context in Quran. If the witness argument is false, then so is the Quran.
It is tempting..... guys... I can barely keep it at bay!....
Hitting Post reply so I don't fall into temptation! 
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
October 24, 2017 at 9:33 am
MysticKnight Wrote:Mister Agenda Wrote:With a leap of faith, you can believe anything. Have you considered the possibility that your proofs don't make sense to us because they're not sensible?
I rehearse them and they are found in better form and context in Quran. If the witness argument is false, then so is the Quran.
I hate to break it to you, but....
MysticKnight Wrote:And I always go testing them with as much denial possible and arguments against them, but they all fail. I once made a thread arguing with myself, but people didn't like that.
Maybe you should pay a little more attention to other people's arguments against your position. From my point of view, you never address cogent criticism, you just deny and deflect.
MysticKnight Wrote:Believe it or not, I have much better arguments against my arguments than you guys, only I know the counter arguments already.
I don't believe it because from what I've seen you wouldn't know a good argument if it bit your nose off. It's not that hard: a good argument has true premises and conclusions that follow from them; and can withstand attacks on its premises and form.
MysticKnight Wrote:Your arguments against them are a constant misunderstanding of the argument or just dismissing premises with no reason to.
To address an argument against them, you would have to explain how the argument is wrong, instead of just claiming that your argument is unassailable over and over.
MysticKnight Wrote:I can go to details of each premise and provide elaborations which I have in other threads, but I find people lose interest as attention span is lacking.
Or maybe because you prove your own arguments too weak to bother with as soon as you type 'a leap of faith is required'.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
October 24, 2017 at 9:37 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2017 at 9:38 am by Mystic.)
When I see people have somewhat understood my argument, and address a premise without diverting the subject, I do reply. When it is repeated or people are constantly misunderstanding purposely or just mocking it, there is no point.
(October 24, 2017 at 9:12 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: With a leap of faith, you can believe anything.
A leap of faith without proofs is but self-deception and not a real leap.
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
October 24, 2017 at 9:40 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2017 at 9:40 am by The Grand Nudger.)
You appear to be building an impressively long list of excuses for sticking your fingers in your ears there, bud. I doubt that a true "vision of guidance" would require as much.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
October 24, 2017 at 9:42 am
(October 24, 2017 at 9:37 am)MysticKnight Wrote: When I see people have somewhat understood my argument, and address a premise without diverting the subject, I do reply. When it is repeated or people are constantly misunderstanding purposely or just mocking it, there is no point.
Of course people will address your premises if they perceive them to be wrong.
No argument holds any water, if at least one premise is wrong.
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
October 24, 2017 at 9:56 am
MysticKnight Wrote:When I see people have somewhat understood my argument, and address a premise without diverting the subject, I do reply. When it is repeated or people are constantly misunderstanding purposely or just mocking it, there is no point.
Mister Agenda Wrote:With a leap of faith, you can believe anything.
A leap of faith without proofs is but self-deception and not a real leap.
With proof, a leap of faith is not required. Sound proofs are, by their nature, convincing.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
October 24, 2017 at 10:49 am
(October 24, 2017 at 9:22 am)pocaracas Wrote: It is tempting..... guys... I can barely keep it at bay!....
Hitting Post reply so I don't fall into temptation!
I don't have your self-control...
(October 24, 2017 at 9:15 am)MysticKnight Wrote: If the witness argument is false, then so is the Quran.
Well, that's the end of that, then.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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