This is what many miss today.
The mode of communication 2000 years ago was different to what we use today.

To decode the past one must teach oneself to code in the same way. One has to understand things like informational warfare. Sabotage of the code etc.
The greatness of Jesus can actually only be seen when one understands the way humans communicate in a broad sense.

Let's compare it to ant feromone - there is no smell like Jesus, no behaviour like the behaviour of a true believer - and it already lasts over 2000 years.
I mean others smell good too - like Socrates, Confucius etc. but their smell is hidden and has to be looked for. Jesus no matter if You like him or not is just present in the air all the time.
Of course there is no way to grasp the glory of God - it's as if teaching a worm mathematical algorithms - but God is able - if You allow him inside he will teach You those algorithms. With those algorithms one becomes powerful enough to influence reality.

Faith could be translated into trust - if You stick to something long enough it will be woth it. Some subjects need years to achive full mastery. Love (not the romantic one) also needs training, but its like runnning on a completely different fuel. To never fear again, to never be demotivated, to feel this constant hunger for more.

-------
Ultimately -  people react to religious writings like somebody who saw morse code the first time and complaints about dots and strokes. Imagine getting a page in morse code and having to decode it - it would take a few hours at least.

(October 29, 2017 at 6:49 am)Captain_Nemo Wrote: This is what many miss today.
The mode of communication 2000 years ago was different to what we use today.

To decode the past one must teach oneself to code in the same way. One has to understand things like informational warfare. Sabotage of the code etc.
The greatness of Jesus can actually only be seen when one understands the way humans communicate in a broad sense.

Let's compare it to ant feromone - there is no smell like Jesus, no behaviour like the behaviour of a true believer - and it already lasts over 2000 years.
I mean others smell good too - like Socrates, Confucius etc. but their smell is hidden and has to be looked for. Jesus no matter if You like him or not is just present in the air all the time.
Of course there is no way to grasp the glory of God - it's as if teaching a worm mathematical algorithms - but God is able - if You allow him inside he will teach You those algorithms. With those algorithms one becomes powerful enough to influence reality.

Faith could be translated into trust - if You stick to something long enough it will be woth it. Some subjects need years to achive full mastery. Love (not the romantic one) also needs training, but its like runnning on a completely different fuel. To never fear again, to never be demotivated, to feel this constant hunger for more.

-------
Ultimately -  people react to religious writings like somebody who saw morse code the first time and complaints about dots and strokes. Imagine getting a page in morse code and having to decode it - it would take a few hours at least.

Religious writings come in a number of flavours all of which are present in the bible.

They list laws.
Contain myths, normally including creation accounts but above all they are vague.

If you want to find love.
There's a verse for that.

If you want to excuse incest.
There's a verse for that.

If you want to get rid of all capitalism.
Theres's a verse for that.

If you look at most religions, but especially the Abrahamic ones, they tend to not be a reflection not of the religion but a reflection of the reader.

The same bible that gives you intolerant American evangelists gave the world anti-slavers in the 1700s.

(October 28, 2017 at 9:58 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 28, 2017 at 9:53 pm)possibletarian Wrote: Thank you, I appreciate the answer, but then what was the Leviticus law were they included in what Jesus would call the Law at all ?

No probs!

In those times, when they said "The Law of the Prophet" they were specifically referring to the 10 commandments.  

Personally I don't even know what Leviticus law is.

Levitical law would be a better phrase, and you really don't know what it is ?

Where does it say 'The law of the prophet' ?

Do you mean 'The law and the prophets' ?

---

(October 29, 2017 at 6:49 am)Captain_Nemo Wrote: This is what many miss today.
The mode of communication 2000 years ago was different to what we use today.

To decode the past one must teach oneself to code in the same way. One has to understand things like informational warfare. Sabotage of the code etc.
The greatness of Jesus can actually only be seen when one understands the way humans communicate in a broad sense.

Let's compare it to ant feromone - there is no smell like Jesus, no behaviour like the behaviour of a true believer - and it already lasts over 2000 years.
I mean others smell good too - like Socrates, Confucius etc. but their smell is hidden and has to be looked for. Jesus no matter if You like him or not is just present in the air all the time.
Of course there is no way to grasp the glory of God - it's as if teaching a worm mathematical algorithms - but God is able - if You allow him inside he will teach You those algorithms. With those algorithms one becomes powerful enough to influence reality.

Faith could be translated into trust - if You stick to something long enough it will be woth it. Some subjects need years to achive full mastery. Love (not the romantic one) also needs training, but its like runnning on a completely different fuel. To never fear again, to never be demotivated, to feel this constant hunger for more.

-------
Ultimately -  people react to religious writings like somebody who saw morse code the first time and complaints about dots and strokes. Imagine getting a page in morse code and having to decode it - it would take a few hours at least.

Has the distinct smell of bullshit to me, I've never seen such a concentration of gobshyte in one place.

It's (a very bad) way of saying 'If you believe then you will believe', once you believe something to be true then of course you find every hidden meaning. The same though can be said of the hunger of any religion, creed, conspiracy theory or dogma.

(October 29, 2017 at 9:02 am)possibletarian Wrote:

(October 28, 2017 at 9:58 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No probs!

In those times, when they said "The Law of the Prophet" they were specifically referring to the 10 commandments.  

Personally I don't even know what Leviticus law is.

Levitical law would be a better phrase, and you really don't know what it is ?

Where does it say 'The law of the prophet' ?

Do you mean 'The law and the prophets'

No, i don't know what levitical law is. The Old Testament isn't a big focus in Catholicism, so I'm not too familiar with it to be honest.

Edit: yeah, you're right that they referred to it as "The Law and the Prophets" vs "of". I just saw it's also referenced on Matthew 22 when Jesus summarized it into 2 commandments: "Love God and love your neighbor. This is The Law and the Prophets."

(October 28, 2017 at 9:32 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 28, 2017 at 9:09 pm)possibletarian Wrote: What exactly do you mean by 'Fufill the law' ?

Was exactly is the bible referring to when it says the 'Law' ?

"The Law" is the 10 commandments. 

During Jesus' sermon when he spoke about fulfilling the law, He specifically made reference to murder, adultery, lying, and loving your enemy. 

Fulfilling the law means He demonstrated God's law by His example as a human being, and He taught us its deeper underlying principles. There was a big problem with legalism and blind obedience at the time, and Jesus emphasized on the spirit of the law.

Which version? The bible contains at least three, none of which correspond to any of the versions taught by the christianities.

---

(October 29, 2017 at 9:02 am)possibletarian Wrote: of gobshyte

Irish?

(October 29, 2017 at 10:27 am)Wololo Wrote:

(October 28, 2017 at 9:32 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: "The Law" is the 10 commandments. 

During Jesus' sermon when he spoke about fulfilling the law, He specifically made reference to murder, adultery, lying, and loving your enemy. 

Fulfilling the law means He demonstrated God's law by His example as a human being, and He taught us its deeper underlying principles. There was a big problem with legalism and blind obedience at the time, and Jesus emphasized on the spirit of the law.

Which version? The bible contains at least three, none of which correspond to any of the versions taught by the christianities.

Im not sure what you mean. A quick Google search of Matthew 5 will come up with several results all saying the same thing. A couple of the words might be different (synonyms) but they all say the same thing.

We've got a bad catholic on our hands.  Both christian theology and the rcc demand, necessarily and explicitly, that the OT cannot be a bunch of allegories. No literal OT, then no judeo-christian god, and no christ.

The understandable urge to distance ones self from the OT leaves a demi god as a rudderless grifter who said some stuff of questionable provenance and no divine significance.

(October 29, 2017 at 9:01 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(October 29, 2017 at 6:49 am)Captain_Nemo Wrote: This is what many miss today.
The mode of communication 2000 years ago was different to what we use today.

To decode the past one must teach oneself to code in the same way. One has to understand things like informational warfare. Sabotage of the code etc.
The greatness of Jesus can actually only be seen when one understands the way humans communicate in a broad sense.

Let's compare it to ant feromone - there is no smell like Jesus, no behaviour like the behaviour of a true believer - and it already lasts over 2000 years.
I mean others smell good too - like Socrates, Confucius etc. but their smell is hidden and has to be looked for. Jesus no matter if You like him or not is just present in the air all the time.
Of course there is no way to grasp the glory of God - it's as if teaching a worm mathematical algorithms - but God is able - if You allow him inside he will teach You those algorithms. With those algorithms one becomes powerful enough to influence reality.

Faith could be translated into trust - if You stick to something long enough it will be woth it. Some subjects need years to achive full mastery. Love (not the romantic one) also needs training, but its like runnning on a completely different fuel. To never fear again, to never be demotivated, to feel this constant hunger for more.

-------
Ultimately -  people react to religious writings like somebody who saw morse code the first time and complaints about dots and strokes. Imagine getting a page in morse code and having to decode it - it would take a few hours at least.

Religious writings come in a number of flavours all of which are present in the bible.

They list laws.
Contain myths, normally including creation accounts but above all they are vague.

If you want to find love.
There's a verse for that.

If you want to excuse incest.
There's a verse for that.

If you want to get rid of all capitalism.
Theres's a verse for that.

If you look at most religions, but especially the Abrahamic ones, they tend to not be a reflection not of the religion but a reflection of the reader.

The same bible that gives you intolerant American evangelists gave the world anti-slavers in the 1700s.

That's exactly my point.
Let's say there is this skill called cryptoanalysis.
There is a certain level You have to reach as human being to be able to use a source of information. Certain preliminaries have to be met.

Something like - from what is faith by deceptive illusion:
"After about 10 years as an atheist. I have realized that the MOST important thing for theists, atheists and agnostics is tolerance and acceptance. I used to be an impatient atheist and would scratch my head at the fact that other people wouldn't see things as I see them. But now, I think that the point is to embrace everyone's point of view. Sadly many goverments and scholars of religion don't think the same. Sigh."

As said before trying to build a generator of truth will always lead to warfare between fractions of power. One has to be knowledgeable about certain things if one wants to be part of a discussion. 
There are two options, I prefer to treat faith as an enticement and road to knowledge, but one does not have to know everything, sometimes accepting a truth just because somebody trustworthy said so is also ok.
It's like the pythagorean theorem - You don't have to understand why or how it works, just use it if there is use for it.

Similarly here, You have the possibility to learn truths that have a use in certain situations.
Truths that are deeper than what You are exposed to during the average daily life.

--------------------------------------
This would be just the old testament.


The new gives something of a different nature. Because You get an undestructible definition of love - Jesus's death on the cross says it all. No need for more.

Indeed it does, it tells us that some people's desire for salvation is greater than their capacity for decency.  They're so hopelessly and helplessly broken that the only solution is to kill the better man.

(October 29, 2017 at 10:27 am)Wololo Wrote:

(October 29, 2017 at 9:02 am)possibletarian Wrote: of gobshyte

Irish?

Yorkshire actually, but I understand why you might think Irish